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Thread: Defining "Golf Science" & Selling Ice to Eskimos

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    Default Defining "Golf Science" & Selling Ice to Eskimos

    As a leader—along with several of my good friends— n the movement toward Golf Science, I thought I should DEFINE what I mean when I use the term....

    "GOLF SCIENCE” - The application of Physics, Engineering, and Bio Mechanics to study the workings of the movement of the golfer, golf club and golf ball in space and their interaction with each other.

    The “movement” toward this “Golf Science” is to find the fundamental truths of these movements, in order to move the sport and the profession of teaching the sport forward and away from the limitations of pseudo-science, folklore, and seems-as-if-feel based information.
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

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    Sir Bri-saac.
    2011 Metro Chapter SCPGA Teacher of the Year
    2012 Horton Smith Award
    www.swingfitgolf.com

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    The funny thing about "Golf Science" is how many yahoos think they can "out smart" it or avoid it.

    Their stuff will all wither and die on the scrap heap of junk ideas unless they learn from the science and scientists. Mark it down.
    Rick Dandy likes this.
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

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    The thing I will find interesting with all the new science is if it will actually lower the average hackers score.

    Seems the really good golfers could always figure it out somehow. However, the average hackers score over the last however many years never really changed.

    Basically golf instruction as a whole would be judged a failure based on that metric, because it (instruction) was all over the map.

    Once the science permeates down the line of instruction we should see a slow progress in golfers actually getting better. Yes?

    I see instructors like Martin Hall on the Golf Channel mention some of the same scientists that Brian Manzella does.

    Once the so called big name teachers (like a Hall or Manzella) move towards golf science based teaching, I would think it would be adapt or be left behind.
    Last edited by Keefer; 03-02-2014 at 09:13 AM.

  5. #5

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    Martin is a friend and he is a member of Golf Wise Guys.

    It is starting to trickle down....folks who previously taught handle-dragging are talking about the "flick."
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

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    I believe the next frontier is communication; how is the new science being conveyed to students. The profession breaks down to research and field work. The very best information in the mind of a poor communicator is of no help. How can the torques, 3-D movement, etc help a teacher in a 30 minute lesson with a serious up and over shanker? At what speed and how can these new findings be delivered? Taking the research lab to the lesson tee is akin to a student taking a swing change to a golf course. The information, however scientific, remains finite; the presentation of it, including content and style, is infinite. Our knowledge is growing exponentially but we are still seeing arithmetic progression (if that) for the 20 caps. Interesting times to be sure.
    Shot Limit and faux_maestro like this.

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    I agree very much with DC. This information has been great for me personally because I am an elite golfer with elite understanding and elite theory-to-practice skills. But in many ways I feel that little of this new info will dramatically change a standard lesson for a high handicaper, where the same skills as in recent years are still valid.
    Burner likes this.
    Some say his scrotum emits its own gravity field.

    The Dalai Lama walks into a pizza shop and says "Can you make me one with everything?".

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    Senior Member Frans@France's Avatar
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    Golf Teachers using a TM and then requesting Trackman to calculate the angle between face and path for them and make it a special field in the screen is best ever indication of the quality of teaching and the skills present.

    Getting into golf teaching here in this country is for people that did not succeed at school at whatever level but do have the ability to shoot 75. Do you really think that group will ever read any of this scientific stuff or even start integrating it into their teaching?....Don't think so!

    Until the intellectual and technical skills of golf teachers gets to a higher level I don't think that the scoring average will change.

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    Senior Member Frans@France's Avatar
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    And I forgot to mention the backstabbing mentality of the golf OEM's. While keeping up appearances by "helping" this search for the "scientific truth" they also are the main reason for making it impossible for most to play this game with the tools (clubs) needed.

    Making people like Tom Wishon having to explain the reason behind those weird loft and distance gaps
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wishon
    The 3* separation between long irons today is unfortunately and sadly a marketing/market perception driven decision. it is forced by the fact that the companies have been lowering the lofts so much over the past 20+ yrs that they now are at a point that they know they cannot possibly keep a 4* loft gap between all the irons or the 3 iron would literally be unhittable for anyone but a tour pro.

    So in order to keep making the 7, 8, 9, PW lower in loft to allow ANY golfer to hit these irons longer and want to buy the set, the lofts on the lower end have to be compressed more together to 3* and with some companies you see 2* or 2.5* between the 3 and 4 irons. This continued loft shrinking is now forcing a 5* loft spacing between the higher numbered irons - without that 5* spacing between the 8 to 9 to PW to AW, then you would be forced to have yet another wedge before the Sand wedge.

    In truth, from a pure performance standpoint, loft spacings between the low loft side of the set should be 5* to deliver the same exact distance gap between low loft irons as you get from a 4* spacing between higher loft irons. This is because plain and simple, for most golfers at lofts under 25*, it is just too difficult to get the ball well UP to fly its maximum distance for the ball speeds generated by normal golfers.

    This matter of the lofts today is really not a good thing at all, not for the golfers, and not for companies that want to do the most to help golfers. I know for sure that I would love to design my iron sets so there could be 5* spacing between the 3 to 4 and 4 to 5, then 4* spacing between irons the rest of the way. But if I try to do that, there is not a good way to get the lofts on the 7, 8, 9, PW as strong as they need to be to be sure our sets could stack up for distance against most of the big company's sets.

    It really is a crappy situation.
    faux_maestro likes this.

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    That's the same in most countries Frans. And if you are talking about the pathetic standard of state school education in the UK where most school leavers can neither read nor count properly you are looking at regression rather than progress. Most private schools are not much better because the pupils are often not the brightest, the difference being that their parents use their money to help them get the most out of themselves.

    I await the response of the incensed little Englanders!
    Some say his scrotum emits its own gravity field.

    The Dalai Lama walks into a pizza shop and says "Can you make me one with everything?".

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