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  1. #1
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    Default The age old Toe Up in backswing

    First off I just received an email inviting me to the new web site. I haven't visited since I got a new computer this past year and the MacAfee anti-virus software gave it an unsafe (red) warning on it's site advisor. This new site gets a safe (green) rating from MacAfee, so I'll become a regular visitor once again.

    Anyway, I recently employed the age old toe up at the halfway back position in the backswing with good results especially with the irons. Straighter, higher ball flight and more solid contact.

    One observation is it seems to put my left wrist in a better position at the top, (flatter, less cupped). My normal backswing would put the toe more down (closed) halfway back. Misses were pulls or straight to right slices and inconsistent contact.

    Other than that does the toe up (hallway) in backswing affect swing plane etc.?

    I realize this is an age old swing tip and not as interesting as some of the newer ideas. However, could something as simple as this have a positive domino affect on the whole swing?
    Last edited by Keefer; 05-05-2015 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    I think it's a good idea to help keep the shaft more vertical instead of too flat, even if your L arm is low or flat?

  3. #3
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    I was taught the Toe up back and Toe up through and it works. My issue now is that I have over the years developed a very bad rolling of the wrists going back and have to work everyday to try and stop this and is hard to do after doing it for many years

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoops33 View Post
    I was taught the Toe up back and Toe up through and it works. My issue now is that I have over the years developed a very bad rolling of the wrists going back and have to work everyday to try and stop this and is hard to do after doing it for many years
    That's exactly my issue too. Solving it by using a weak grip, cupping the L wrist at setup (more mid-body hands), takeaway/BS just feeling like merely cocking the L wrist (absolutely no intentional roll), and turning the L shoulder parallel to the Hogan plane of glass.


    Over roll creeps in due to years of rolling the L wrist like you said, but at least I'm aware now, and is certainly aware of the club shaft getting more vertical in BS. However, I think it's better to think of the club shaft rather the the club face or toe. I can feel it easier and see it better on a mirror too.

  5. #5

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    The lead arm STARTS about 30° up away from the torso.

    Most folks overdo the "hands in-club out" deal and the lead arm goes IN even more toward the body.

    99% of the time when this occurs, the lead arm DOES NOT ROTATE enough and the face is more 45° than 90° open.

    The PROCESS of trying to go "toe in the air" will circumvent some of this. But I prefer the toe just SLIGHTLY down from toe in the air.
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Manzella View Post
    The lead arm STARTS about 30° up away from the torso.

    Most folks overdo the "hands in-club out" deal and the lead arm goes IN even more toward the body.

    99% of the time when this occurs, the lead arm DOES NOT ROTATE enough and the face is more 45° than 90° open.

    The PROCESS of trying to go "toe in the air" will circumvent some of this. But I prefer the toe just SLIGHTLY down from toe in the air.
    Brian. Do you mean the leading edge of the club is the same angle as my back when it it nearing hip high going back ?

  7. #7
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    After several more rounds (I play 3 times a week) the toe up at hallway in backswing is still working nicely. Since it's not a natural move for me (it wants to be more 45* than 90* open) I need to just go by feel to get it 90* or toe up.

    I tried one fix that has the right elbow turned in more towards the right hip at address. This giving blood position has the toe going up to 90* open naturally without any manipulation and it worked decent on the range, but on the course not so much.

    So, it looks like I'll stick with just manipulating it to a 90* toe up position at the parallel position in the backswing. The consistency of solidness and straightness is amazing, thus well worth the conscious manipulation.

    Had 207 to the back of the green (pin) on the 18th yesterday. Hit my 3 wood on a rope that ended up pin high 8 feet to the right of the pin. Missed the birdie putt, but love this straightness on my approach shots.

    I'm almost ready to declare this toe up epiphany is the real deal for me and not another fleeting temporary epiphany that eventually stops working.

    Not sure I want to tempt the golf gods though.

    Also, did something for the first time ever yesterday. Birdied the first two holes.
    Last edited by Keefer; 05-23-2015 at 07:48 AM.

  8. #8
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    Might have stumbled on to something. Tried addressing the ball with a slightly open clubface. This seemed to make it easier to get the toe ~ 90 degrees open at parallel in the backswing. Excellent ball striking. Easier to draw the ball also. Played a different course today and had 2 birdies on way to an 80.

    I'm convinced this is the real deal.
    Last edited by Keefer; 05-28-2015 at 06:40 AM.

  9. #9
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    it amazes me how people can expect to be focusing on positions with such precision and still succeed in delivering an accelerating club face

    look at the business end ie impact two feet before and two feet after the brain will simply guide you there

    there's a million different actions but the good ones are identical at the business end

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdesmach@aol.com View Post
    it amazes me how people can expect to be focusing on positions with such precision and still succeed in delivering an accelerating club face

    look at the business end ie impact two feet before and two feet after the brain will simply guide you there

    there's a million different actions but the good ones are identical at the business end
    It's done all the time (focusing on positions). For me focusing on a toe up position is not a static move, but a dynamic move.

    I think one thing it does is it gets the shaft on plane better. I normally am a shut face player. The club would be shut at the parallel point in the back swing.

    Right arm above the left and shut at the top. Misses were pulls or slices and more contact toward the toe of the club.

    For me anyway how I take it back determines what happens at the bottom.

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