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Thread: What part of this don't you understand.....?

  1. #1

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    Default What part of this don't you understand.....?

    Look....

    You have a certain SPEED of the mid point of the grip.


    You have a certain SPEED of the in the plane rotation of the bottom of the grip past the top.




    On the abject THROWAWAY side, you have very little speed of the mid point of the grip and a relatively high speed of the in the plane rotation of the bottom of the grip past the top of the grip.


    On the MASSIVE HANDLE-DRAGGING side, you have a relatively high speed of the mid point of the grip and a relatively low speed of the in the plane rotation of the bottom of the grip past the top of the grip.



    That's it.


    My simplified easy to measure "handle dragging" metric.


    Where do I say this is the ONLY way?

    Where?
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

  2. #2

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    HANDLE DRAGGING FACTS:

    1. I taught it. I know what it is backward and forward. I saw what issues it created. And I found solutions for ALL OF THEM.

    2. Every single teacher I have ever talked to about handle dragging, including some big names, ALL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS WITHOUT NEEDING ANY HELP TO SPOT IT.

    3. The first Morad pattern was more or less invented to decrease the handle dragging consequences that Mac suffered from like OTGIR.

    4. I saw teachers in the 80's, 90's and 00's teach folks to put NO APLHA TORQUE ON THE CLUB of any amount mid-downswing. By kinetic definition, that's HANDLE DRAGGING at that point in the swing.

    5. The centers of curvature of the whole club, the hand path, and the clubhead can ALL SHOW HANDLE DRAGGING VS. NON-HD.

    6. THE KINETICS OF A HANDLE DRAGGER DOWN NEAR IMPACT ARE—LOW APLHA, MASSIVE NEGATIVE BETA, HIGH GAMMA.

    7. Multiple different parameters can show handle dragging in Jacobs 3D.


    8. The only folks that don't understand handle dragging either: like it, teach it, or never could do it.

    9. Jimmy Self, who was the #1 lesson giver in the USA from 1975 to 2000, posed handle dragging and it subsequent issues in lessons in the 60's to 2005 as he wiped the floor with Paul Bertholy when he was in NOLA.




    It is an outright falsehood that Nesbit never measured good players. He measured dozens of them for secret USGA research. Please stop saying all of his research is "optimized for speed" — that's a lie. He can optimized for ANY parameter and does. BTW, he has run dozens of current PGA TOUR players data.


    We can finally measure all the stuff that folks MOCKED US, saying "Its all find and dandy but you can't measure it"


    We can now.


    And we do.....
    Shot Limit and mjh116 like this.
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

  3. #3

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    The thread starter is simply me giving folks an easy way to look it—from one extreme to the other.
    Shot Limit likes this.
    "All you have is the HUB PATH and the force and torque you apply to the club—that's the whole swing."

    Brian Manzella is Golf Digest's 37th ranked teacher in the USA and is a three time Golf Magazine Top 100 Instructor.

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    Excellent definition, actually. Before I thought its the clubhead. Top/end of grip, yeah. Perfect.

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    Yeah, I get it. The measurement is a ratio of the rate of the clubhead around the hands, relative to the rate of the hands around the body, at impact, or perhaps averaged around impact. And by that measurement, some of the best players in the world are closer to the dragging side than just about anybody I know who isn't on Tour.
    Swing the clubhead in a circular arc, in-plane, striking the ball with the center of the clubface, with the clubhead traveling in the direction required, with the clubface pointing in the direction required, at the velocity required, for the desired ball flight.

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    With this definition, you could be handle dragging and still have fast rate of closure. Otoh, you could be NOT handle dragging and still have SLOW rate of closure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Dugan View Post
    Yeah, I get it. The measurement is a ratio of the rate of the clubhead around the hands, relative to the rate of the hands around the body, at impact, or perhaps averaged around impact. And by that measurement, some of the best players in the world are closer to the dragging side than just about anybody I know who isn't on Tour.
    No. Brian said its the speed of MIDDLE of GRIP vis-a-vis TOP/END of GRIP (the other end of the club, as opposed to the other end-clubhead).
    Last edited by zachgolf; 07-29-2015 at 10:26 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachgolf View Post
    No. Brian said its the speed of MIDDLE of GRIP vis-a-vis TOP/END of GRIP (the other end of the club, as opposed to the other end-clubhead).
    I'm no scientist, but since the clubhead is attached to the grip by the shaft, I believe the ratio would be the same. I just prefer using the classic double-pendulum swing model.
    Swing the clubhead in a circular arc, in-plane, striking the ball with the center of the clubface, with the clubhead traveling in the direction required, with the clubface pointing in the direction required, at the velocity required, for the desired ball flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Dugan View Post
    I'm no scientist, but since the clubhead is attached to the grip by the shaft, I believe the ratio would be the same. I just prefer using the classic double-pendulum swing model.
    No it won't be the same.

  10. #10
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    An individual could do something to change the speed ratio of middle grip vs clubhead while ratio of middle grip vd top/end of grip will be the same (or change also but change is substantially less).
    Last edited by zachgolf; 07-29-2015 at 11:56 PM.

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