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  1. #1
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    Default Hands inside (ball) path

    Is your hand path suppose to be well inside the ball in the downswing? I've always had toe down divots and on a lie board strike the club closer to the toe side on the sole. Also, my misses are toe side of the club head.

    For some reason in golf I think I may be swinging my hands towards the ball which stands the shaft up more which causes the toe to contact the ground first. Most sports I can think of you don't swing your hands at the ball, but inside of the ball.

    Any merit to this line of thinking? I was watching Sergio recently and his hands come very close to his body in the down swing. Is it just a matter of trying to swing your hands closer to your body? You always hear 'hands in, club head out'. If you swing the hands in does the club head automatically swing out?

    Not sure there's anyone left here to ask, but maybe someone will stop by and give their opinion.

  2. #2
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    This might help:

    The Science of Smash (Alpha, Beta & Gamma Torques) April '15 Golf Digest Feature

    Another thing that helped me "visualise" this was Michael Jacobs' "world strongest man" video on Youtube.
    Last edited by Mike Richardson; 11-16-2015 at 06:41 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Richardson View Post
    This might help:

    The Science of Smash (Alpha, Beta & Gamma Torques) April '15 Golf Digest Feature

    Another thing that helped me "visualise" this was Michael Jacobs' "world strongest man" video on Youtube.
    I think the key is when Brian says the down swing takes 2.5 tenths of a second. Not enough time to apply 3 different torques consciously.

    The trick I suppose is to get a feel that can accomplish all three in that 2.5 tenths of a second.

    We've all hit long, straight and solid golf shots. Just can't repeat them enough. So I would assume we're all capable of doing or coming close to doing all three in the down swing.

    Need a feel that can do that. Couldn't find the Jacobs video on Youtube. Maybe that visual would help.

    If I were to summarize the three torques in the downswing in simpler terms it would be to 'stand the club up' (Alpha), 'tumble the club out and over after flattening slightly' (Beta), twist the club with your hands counter clockwise into impact as you pull the grip up and into you (Gamma).
    Last edited by Keefer; 11-16-2015 at 08:49 AM.

  4. #4
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    Just watching the Mexico tournament finish this Monday morning and the Pro's all seem to get their hands very close to their bodies through impact.

    Going to give that a shot next time I play. I think I can get that feel relatively easily and just maybe help get the three torques all in on that one feel.

    To get my hands closer to me on the down swing I need to stand the club up against Brian's imaginary wall. Then let the club head tumble out and then pull the grip end into me as I fire thru the ball.

    The thing I know I struggle with is getting the shaft to lay down slightly (flatten). I doubt I can ever do that. May just have to live with being steep.
    Last edited by Keefer; 11-16-2015 at 08:46 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer View Post
    I think the key is when Brian says the down swing takes 2.5 tenths of a second. Not enough time to apply 3 different torques consciously.

    The trick I suppose is to get a feel that can accomplish all three in that 2.5 tenths of a second.

    We've all hit long, straight and solid golf shots. Just can't repeat them enough. So I would assume we're all capable of doing or coming close to doing all three in the down swing.

    Need a feel that can do that. Couldn't find the Jacobs video on Youtube. Maybe that visual would help.

    If I were to summarize the three torques in the downswing in simpler terms it would be to 'stand the club up' (Alpha), 'tumble the club out and over after flattening slightly' (Beta), twist the club with your hands counter clockwise into impact as you pull the grip up and into you (Gamma).
    World's Strongest Man

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_v7d1n8qkQ

    It's in Mike's "channel".

  6. #6
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    Just subscribed to Jacobs' channel. Guess I'll be watching a few things tonight. MNF isn't all that exciting anyways.
    The easiest way to slay a dragon is to run up to it and shove a spear in it's throat.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Richardson View Post
    World's Strongest Man

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_v7d1n8qkQ

    It's in Mike's "channel".
    The science Jacobs and Manzella are involved in is very convoluted. But as Jacobs says hopefully this will lead to better instruction.

    My hope would be that instead of comparing my swing to a Tour Pro and getting me to swing like a Pro, they instead could apply the science to recommend what I should do to work within my natural tendencies.

    Example. A golfer has a natural early release. They would then recommend what the golfer could do to accommodate what they do naturally.

    It would be like going to an art class. The teacher says I can scientifically explain how Rembrandt could paint so well. But instead of forcing me to try to paint like Rembrandt the teacher instead sees what I do naturally and recommends the technique that would fit me best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer View Post
    The science Jacobs and Manzella are involved in is very convoluted. But as Jacobs says hopefully this will lead to better instruction.

    My hope would be that instead of comparing my swing to a Tour Pro and getting me to swing like a Pro, they instead could apply the science to recommend what I should do to work within my natural tendencies.
    As I understand it, the software is designed to work out the best way to optimize what the golfer "has".

    This is what Mike Jacobs said in the FB Post Modern Golf group:

    What "Hub Path" is best for a person? That is the million dollar question for sure. It will depend upon what the golfer and the teacher are trying to achieve. Here are some samples:

    Perhaps they decide they need to improve the path of the swing and they want to reduce how much the club is rotating during the downswing, they would want to optimize the "FORCE"

    Perhaps the next person has a decent swing but leaves a lot in the tank and wants to increase "POWER" - {Power is the rate at which you apply your action on the club} They would want to optimize for "POWER"

    Perhaps a golfer is handle dragging by over forcing the club and needs more torque to create a 'whirling swing action' to the club. They would want to optimize for "TORQUE"

    As a last example, what if the golfer just wanted to know if they adjusted their hub path slightly, can they gain velocity? They would obviously optimize for "VELOCITY"

    What if I told you we could now touch a button and let a software run thousands of lines of code in the background and within seconds produce the shape of a hub path for all different people on any area of Optimization the person is interested in.

    What if after a few swings we knew their capacity for what they are able to produce as a golfer from the feet to the club and had a distinct 'Optimization' process for any parameter they wanted?

    It takes some expertise to interpret and to get the person to achieve the differences in hub path trajectory, but the capacity to 'Optimize' at the touch of a button is now a reality. Very excited to share and one day get a simple easy to use version into everyone's hands!

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