Shows you how strong minded nicklaus was. true self esteem..
Tiger has proven over the years he has very little self esteem.
Orthodox or Not?
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Shows you how strong minded nicklaus was. true self esteem..
Tiger has proven over the years he has very little self esteem.
Which begs the REAL question...why do top-tier players change their swings?
IMO, it's "Fear." Some have genuine issues that they would like to address, but most have swings that would work quite well over the course of a career.
Its just easier to "work" on something new "mentally" than it is to maintain the same action day after day and hope it never goes away. Why do you think players constantly tell the media they are working on something? Why do any of us? It's a get out of jail free card. Tiger will never admit his swing was better in 2000 than it is today.
Vijay Singh has said as much and nobody works harder than that guy.
IMO, it's "Fear." Some have genuine issues that they would like to address, but most have swings that would work quite well over the course of a career.
Its just easier to "work" on something new "mentally" than it is to maintain the same action day after day and hope it never goes away. Why do you think players constantly tell the media they are working on something? Why do any of us? It's a get out of jail free card. Tiger will never admit his swing was better in 2000 than it is today.
Vijay Singh has said as much and nobody works harder than that guy.
drewyallop
New
I wondered about this the last junior womens' tournament at my club. I am probably exaggerating but they seemed to all have the same pre-swing routine, same set-up, same high hands at the top, same very centred pivot. Didn't look that athletic, more robotic really.
Laura Davies on the other hand, on tip toes at impact!
... but I went to a tournament, tee off at 8 am. There was young Korean girl on the practice green. Finished tournament and dinner at 5 pm. On the way to the car saw that kid still on the green. With that kind of discipline perhaps you don't need a lot power, just accuracy.
Drew
Richie3Jack
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Always looking to get a little bit better.
I remember my days of striking the ball well, but not knowing how I did it. Even if you're playing pretty well, sometimes you just get sick and tired of hitting the ball the same.
So you want more and think there's other ways to get better.
That and most golfers really don't have the foggiest idea about the golf swing. So if they get a teacher that 'sells' them on their theories, no matter how wacky they are, they wind up making swing changes even if they don't need them.
YR
Richie I hear what you are saying but I can tell you this, I never get tired of hitting the ball well. I however have realistic expectations and know my limitations. Yes I am much like other golfer trying to find a better way but there is a point of no return. Most good players that start tinkering to much sometimes never get back to their best form. There are plenty of X tour players that has happen to.
When I was playing out in Hazentine in the PGA I meet up with a good friend who won a tour event the previous year in a strong field. We got to talking and he told me about the swing changes he was making. He met some guy that convinced him he need to get better by getting longer. This guy (I would rather not say names) as I knew him from the past was just a flat out great ball striker. A very simple but super efficient motion. Tour average distance but probably hit 75% to 80 % of fairways and never missed a green. His ball just never left the target. I told him I think he is crazy for making all these changes. Well as you can guess, he now has lost all statis and even did poor on the Nationwide. I see this happen a lot.
I feel with all the garbage out there trying to be sold, many golfers get sucked into the downward spiral by buying into these fads.
When I was playing out in Hazentine in the PGA I meet up with a good friend who won a tour event the previous year in a strong field. We got to talking and he told me about the swing changes he was making. He met some guy that convinced him he need to get better by getting longer. This guy (I would rather not say names) as I knew him from the past was just a flat out great ball striker. A very simple but super efficient motion. Tour average distance but probably hit 75% to 80 % of fairways and never missed a green. His ball just never left the target. I told him I think he is crazy for making all these changes. Well as you can guess, he now has lost all statis and even did poor on the Nationwide. I see this happen a lot.
I feel with all the garbage out there trying to be sold, many golfers get sucked into the downward spiral by buying into these fads.
Richie- I agree to a point. That is what THEY think or have convinced themselves anyway.
But if you are an elite player, you already have a pretty good idea where the ball is going. The rest of us are trying to improve fundamentals. They need polish, not a chisel.
If an elite player wants to get better, they need to shave .5 shots off their score. That isn't going to happen with a major swing overhaul...its just more fun and way more mentally stimulating.
I look at Brian's original post and his continual point that this is a pretty good way to swing the driver and take it this way. Tiger drove the ball amazingly well in 2000 and he was definitely behind the ball. Perhaps he has better trajectory control now. He's clearly more centered. Who knows what he wants, but I doubt he will ever get everything he wants with one swing. We all know he can get in the hole no matter what swing he chooses. But players always want what they don't have or they covet what another player does better than they do. Its human nature.
Me? I want to swing like Sheftic. It's disgustingly good.
But if you are an elite player, you already have a pretty good idea where the ball is going. The rest of us are trying to improve fundamentals. They need polish, not a chisel.
If an elite player wants to get better, they need to shave .5 shots off their score. That isn't going to happen with a major swing overhaul...its just more fun and way more mentally stimulating.
I look at Brian's original post and his continual point that this is a pretty good way to swing the driver and take it this way. Tiger drove the ball amazingly well in 2000 and he was definitely behind the ball. Perhaps he has better trajectory control now. He's clearly more centered. Who knows what he wants, but I doubt he will ever get everything he wants with one swing. We all know he can get in the hole no matter what swing he chooses. But players always want what they don't have or they covet what another player does better than they do. Its human nature.
Me? I want to swing like Sheftic. It's disgustingly good.
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It almost sounds like pro golfers are, to some extent, head cases as a group (no offense meant by this); almost like they're always looking over their shoulder and looking out for ways to stay ahead of the next guy.
I've heard how stressful it is. Is this stress the reason for this mentality, or does it take a kind of scared rabbit mentality in order to continue to strive for improvement to the degree necessary to be successful at the next level?
I've heard how stressful it is. Is this stress the reason for this mentality, or does it take a kind of scared rabbit mentality in order to continue to strive for improvement to the degree necessary to be successful at the next level?
chipingguru
New
Why is keepng the head behind the ball such an important component? Is it that the club can be delivered more squarely from that position or is there some other physics, scientific, or geometric explanation? inuitively, you would think moving the weight of the head forward would add power, not diminish it.
mjstrong
New
Not really, IMO. Try cracking a whip with the handle moving towards the tip of the whip instead of away from it. Not nearly the same effect...
They look an excellent set of driver swings - the results speak for themselves, clearly. From a technical perspective, I would have thought being 'behind' it would encourage hitting more on the upswing and an earlier release, which I am led to believe is more optimal for a driver. After all, to hit on the up, low point must be behind the ball.
But with an iron, especially with a centred ball position, it's slightly different; you want low point ahead of the ball. With that in mind, I'd question the head position aspect. I'm not sure I buy the whip analogy. Assuming the lower body leads, and lag and axis tilt are created, why is the head position crucial? But that's off topic.
But with an iron, especially with a centred ball position, it's slightly different; you want low point ahead of the ball. With that in mind, I'd question the head position aspect. I'm not sure I buy the whip analogy. Assuming the lower body leads, and lag and axis tilt are created, why is the head position crucial? But that's off topic.
Touch of soft draw?
aaron_lohan
New
Very true, it takes an unbalanced individual to make a top 10 ranked sportsman, more so to become a legend.
aaron_lohan
New
Regarding Tiger Woods' 2000 swing, yes he was a far better driver but wasn't anywhere near as good an iron player as he is now, and his distance control has improved immensely since then. Also people forget that in 2000 everything was going for him; luck, timing, mechanically the 2001 swing was actually better than the 2000 swing.
duckjr78
New
I asked my physics teacher this many years ago. He showed me a weight on a string swinging in a circle. Moving the pivot point in the direction of the swinging weight on the downswing resulted in a loss of speed and stability. Moving the center the opposite direction the weight was swinging added speed and thus, stability. I would have never guessed.
aaron_lohan
New
Are you implying Tiger is weak minded? I think not, I think he has been poorly coached over the years.
mjstrong
New
Yeah, that's an even better example than mine.
chipingguru
New
Thanks duckjr78 that explains it.
Until last year, I'd have said one of Tiger's great strengths - possibly his single greatest strength - was his ability to win without his A game; to get it round, using whatever means, in a low score. He was also better than anyone at hitting a great shot when he had to; the chip in at the Masters, that wedge in the playoff against Mediate. That to me would indicate mental strength.
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