Club Face Opening on backswing

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To all:

It is commonly accepted that when a golfer makes a full swing without manipulating the club face, the club face will open during the backswing. Twist away from NSA will decrease this opening and laying the club off will increase it.

What is the reason for this natural club face opening? Where does it come from, i.e. shoulder, arm, elbow, wrist or other?
 

tank

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My best guess:

The rotation of the body ( the pivot), the folding of the right elbow, and the flattening of the left wrist orients the the back of the left hand to lay on the inclined plane. With a proper grip, the club head is just following the lead of the left hand.
 
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ej20

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Left forearm rotation opens the clubface.

There will always be some rotation in the full golf swing.You can minimise it with twistaway or an upright backswing.
 
To all:

It is commonly accepted that when a golfer makes a full swing without manipulating the club face, the club face will open during the backswing. Twist away from NSA will decrease this opening and laying the club off will increase it.

What is the reason for this natural club face opening? Where does it come from, i.e. shoulder, arm, elbow, wrist or other?

Interesting question.

Don't think I ever thought about why so much...just knew it had to be done one way or another. Have thought about how NO doubt.

I'd say it's just to control the clubface however you need to do it or how you do it best.

All pivots pivot. (turn) So to me that's out.

There can easily be differences in wrist movements with all else equal.

That is to say wrist action is fairly isolated.
 
You cannot get to the top of the back swing WITHOUT rotating the club open.

Remember the Bmanz's statement that even a "shut" face at the top is just "less open" and that "square" is just what is generally agreed as the "right" amount of open.
 
The clubface rotates open automatically on the backswing without any conscious manipulation on the part of the golfer.

My questions are still why does this occur and where does it occur?
 
The clubface rotates open automatically on the backswing without any conscious manipulation on the part of the golfer.

My questions are still why does this occur and where does it occur?

Depends on the needs of the golfer, but IN GENERAL..I'd say it opens immediately off the ball. As for the science of why, maybe Brian and Mandrin can help.
 
Brian covers this in at least one of his videos, can't remember which one.


I suspect the question is part of the problem. The word Open needs a qualifier. Open as compared to what? The plane? The Target line?
Also you can't really divorce the forearms from the right elbow as they are connected.

I would say that there are a whole lot of people that start there backswings with a roll of the wrists open. Causes all kinds of problems. Watch good golfer take-away and you will see the right hand on top longer.
 
It has to do with how your shoulders are constructed. When you were in school and you raised your hand, the palm faced the teacher. In order for you arm to go up any significant degree, your scapula has to turn out, which turns your arm clockwise. Thus when you make a backswing and you lift your arms, the FLW turns clockwise.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
The clubface rotates open automatically on the backswing without any conscious manipulation on the part of the golfer.

My questions are still why does this occur and where does it occur?

i have a 2 part answer for you:

1) I always wondered this myself but soon learned it didn't matter, understanding that it happens and learning to control it is what matters.

2) If you do find a REAL answer, please let me know :)
 

Burner

New
The clubface rotates open automatically on the backswing without any conscious manipulation on the part of the golfer.

My questions are still why does this occur and where does it occur?

You will answer all your own questions if you hold your left arm out in front of you and with an open hand, fingers pointing straight out from you, back of the hand facing the target, palm facing the other way - naturally - and your thumb stuck up.

From that position, swing your arm directly across your chest without rotating anything and with your thumb still stuck up. The back of your hand will now face away from you and the palm will face behind you. From there take hold of your left wrist with your right hand and lift up to a back swing finish position.

The palm of your left hand should now be laying on the inclined plane and with a neutral grip your club face would be neither open or closed but in line with the back of your left hand.

There you go. Nothing consciously rotated but it all happens when physics and geometry meet in a g.o.l.f swing.
 
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I think Zarro and Burner have it. That makes sense to me. I figured if you ask a question some very smart people will provide answers.

After reading their answers I went back and reviewed my anatomy text and what they referred to was called Codman's paradox. Basically if shoulder motion occurs in two planes there is an automatic rotation also occurs. So in a golf backswing the left arm undergoes flexion (raising up) and horizontal adduction (moving across the chest) causing an internal rotation of the shoulder (and arm), thus opening the face.

Thanks
 
You will answer all your own questions if you hold your left arm out in front of you and with an open hand, fingers pointing straight out from you, back of the hand facing the target, palm facing the other way - naturally - and your thumb stuck up.

From that position, swing your arm directly across your chest without rotating anything and with your thumb still stuck up. The back of your hand will now face away from you and the palm will face behind you. From there take hold of your left wrist with your right hand and lift up to a back swing finish position.

The palm of your left hand should now be laying on the inclined plane and with a neutral grip your club face would be neither open or closed but in line with the back of your left hand.

There you go. Nothing consciously rotated but it all happens when physics and geometry meet in a g.o.l.f swing.

so my question is, (imagine a ball that's floating infront of you and you are trying to hit the ball)
if you hold the club infront of you and without any rotation of the forearm into your backswing you will now have the club pointing almost 90 degrees skyward. from there how do you swing your club? Unless you push it with your right hand to impact there won't be any pulling of the club at all. HOw do you hit the ball from there?
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I think Zarro and Burner have it. That makes sense to me. I figured if you ask a question some very smart people will provide answers.

After reading their answers I went back and reviewed my anatomy text and what they referred to was called Codman's paradox. Basically if shoulder motion occurs in two planes there is an automatic rotation also occurs. So in a golf backswing the left arm undergoes flexion (raising up) and horizontal adduction (moving across the chest) causing an internal rotation of the shoulder (and arm), thus opening the face.

Thanks

This makes perfect sense because if you raise your arm 90* and move your arm back and forth it WON'T rotate but as you pend over it will.
 

Burner

New
Ah, Grasshopper.

so my question is, (imagine a ball that's floating infront of you and you are trying to hit the ball)
if you hold the club infront of you and without any rotation of the forearm into your backswing you will now have the club pointing almost 90 degrees skyward. from there how do you swing your club? Unless you push it with your right hand to impact there won't be any pulling of the club at all. HOw do you hit the ball from there?

My answer would be to "assume the position" and then bend from the hips until your arm is in your golfing address position and make the motion from there - you are just on the inclined rather than horizontal plane.

If you do this with a club in your hand, you can check your alignments once you have swung your (un-rotated) club to the top of your back swing.

Once you have got your (un-rotated) left arm and club to the top of your back swing you can then experience the feeling of a real pivot and follow through by simply making your down swing without your right hand on the club - very enlightening it is too.
 
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