Why is it so hard to stay down on a shot?

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I think Hogan said the hardest thing for the average golfer to do is stay bent over for 4 seconds. I struggle with this a lot, as do the other 3 in our hacking foursome.

What gives?
 
Probably something to do with an improper pivot. That's just my guess though.

I remember Jim starting a thread once about balance in the golf swing. People had various responses, and then Brian chimed in, stating that (pardon my paraphrasing) balance is OVERRATED and that a proper pivot creates balance, and not the other way around. I recall this because I believe that in your case it's a matter of pivoting properly will help you "stay down on it," and that trying to stay down on it will not necessarily help you pivot properly.

I'd suggest you study the Perfect Pivot articles and the way good players (particularily good ballstrikers) pivot.

I'd love to hear what Brian and Jim have to say about what specifically helps one "stay down" on the shot.
 
Open clubface and/or flipping.

Its been my experience that if I know that my clubface is too open I am not going stay down and through a shot, knowing that if I do, I am going to hit it on the heel or maybe hosel. So I completely bail on it and hit it thin because I am trying to flip at the last minute to get the clubface closed.
 
from what i was told when i had this problem that the arms have no room to swing so you lose your spine angle. Holeout is right, an improper pivot will not create room for the right elbow on the downswing.
 
Klutes,
I have found this "principle" makes an enormous difference to the quality of the strike...
My personal "cure" for this problem was to follow the advice of not allowing your eyes to move and follow the ball until your right shoulder collects and turns your head (by pressing on the right side of your chin) as the shoulder turns to the follow through...

This gives the impression of your arms passing in front of your vision from right to left, instead of probably what you are used to, i.e. your eyes (and head) turning though with your arms...

On most shots you won't re-see the ball until it is past 1/3 of the way to where it is going. So if you start seeing most of the flight of your ball, you know you are coming out of it too early...
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Blah, Blah, Blah!

"I looked off the ball." —Don Villavaso

"No, you didn't look off the ball, Donald, you hit up!" —Brian Manzella


Look folks, I watched Pat Browne, Jr. hit 100,000 golf balls, and It didn't matter whether or nor he "looked" off the ball, he is the best blind golfer of all time.

He didn't come out of the shot either, and he always "stayed down on it."

He was a very good player.

Listen good:

ALL FORCE MUST BE DOWN PLANE!

Then, even if you actually LOOOKED off the ball, or tried to "come out of the shot" or stand up on it, lost your spine angle, tush line or any HOST of other complete and total BS,

You'll flush it.

You see, all of those things are CAUSES.

The cure is directing the force of your right shoulder and the pivot, as well as the clubhead, and the rest of the power package (hands and arms)...

DOWN PLANE!

Got it? :cool:
 

Erik_K

New
Jim, you are right. Another way of looking at it is that many struggling golfers are very steep coming down. They need to stand up to make solid contact if that's the case.

Erik
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
"I looked off the ball."
Listen good:

ALL FORCE MUST BE DOWN PLANE!

Then, even if you actually LOOOKED off the ball, or tried to "come out of the shot" or stand up on it, lost your spine angle, tush line or any HOST of other complete and total BS,

You'll flush it.

You see, all of those things are CAUSES.


[/B]


I didn't realize all that stuff was the result of not being on plane. That is amazing. That should clear up a lot of misconceptions and get to the core problem with a lot of golfers

Hell of a post, that Brian, is why people get better by getting lessons from you, the ability to separate fact from fiction
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Do people tend to go below the plane or above?- what is most common?

It usually revolves around you personal clubface issue. If you have open face problems most of the time you will most times be above plane and the exact opposite if you have closed face problems you'll be under plane.

NOW

I said usually because you could have open clubface issues and swing underplane and to the right and flip at it to solve your problem too but in my experience that isn't a high % of golfers. Just like you rarely see many golfers with closed face over the top problems.
 
It usually revolves around you personal clubface issue. If you have open face problems most of the time you will most times be above plane and the exact opposite if you have closed face problems you'll be under plane.

NOW

I said usually because you could have open clubface issues and swing underplane and to the right and flip at it to solve your problem too but in my experience that isn't a high % of golfers. Just like you rarely see many golfers with closed face over the top problems.


Thanks :)
 

djm

New
In my experience, slow motion video makes it is easy to understand the relationship between getting off plane and the host of adjustments, including standing up, that occur thereafter. You'll often see a pivot that looks nice, then goes awry with the club getting off plane. This is immediately followed by a series of bizarre moves, mostly subconscious, attempting to get the club back in the right position through the impact zone, such as: standing on your toes, raising your shoulders, reverse weight shift, flipping your hands, violent spinning of the entire body and a variety of other not so great moves. You keep that sucker on plane and the same swing will lack the futile last second adjustments and suddenly look pretty good.
Personally, I think the straight plane line cannot be practiced too much. If you get that in decent shape and have any sort of idea what a good pivot should look like, you can start whacking the ball with a flat left wrist and lagging clubhead without too much difficulty. The fine tuning and clubface control are tricky, but a basic swing is not too hard once you can trace a straight plane line on a regular basis, IMHO.
 
I didn't realize all that stuff was the result of not being on plane. That is amazing. That should clear up a lot of misconceptions and get to the core problem with a lot of golfers

Hell of a post, that Brian, is why people get better by getting lessons from you, the ability to separate fact from fiction

So why do people get off plane? Clubfaces issues. Sort the face and you dramatically improve your chances of being and staying on plane and staying down on the shot.
 

JeffM

New member
Brian - could you please define the term "downplane"? I have never heard of that term and I would like to understand what you really mean when using that term - "downplane".

Jeff.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Downplane.

Brian - could you please define the term "downplane"? I have never heard of that term and I would like to understand what you really mean when using that term - "downplane".

Jeff.

Cool.

You are laying up against the base of a wall. I am standing on a ladder holding a basketball up against the same wall.

I drop the basketball...

or

I shove (push) the basketball...

or

I "two-hand pass" (pull) the basketball...

DOWN THE WALL.

Your head will experience "downplane force."


Now....the wall is tilted on a 45° angle...

Your head still hurts. ;):D
 

JeffM

New member
Brian - thanks for replying. I presume that applying that "downplane force" is equivalent to Bobby Clampett's idea in his book "The Impact Zone" where he talks of an aiming point 4" in front of the ball and he states that one needs to hit DOWNWARDS so that the deepest part of the divot is 4" in front of the ball, while the clubhead remains in plane (pointing along the straight plane line) during the later part of the downswing action.

Jeff.
 
aiming point

i like the idea of an aiming point, but it often results in hosel rockets for me. when i start missing them like that, i try to "keep the ant looking at the ball" but then i just miss 'em hard left.
 
Be careful what you aim

i like the idea of an aiming point, but it often results in hosel rockets for me. when i start missing them like that, i try to "keep the ant looking at the ball" but then i just miss 'em hard left.

My two cents would be that you have to be careful to "aim" PP #3 and not aim the hands in general. The left hand will be moving left prior to impact in a good swing.

good golfing!
 
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