Test conditions can obviously affect the result and ball data would be scarce for Hogan’s period but the early Pro V1 was reported at 7 yds longer than the wound Professional. When Tiger was with Titleist (steel shaft 9* 975D/Professional ball) they had him at 118-120 club head (180 ball) but his launch angle at 10-12 was higher than average at the time. When he switched to Nike and a solid ball there were reports of + 10 yds signaling the demise of the Professional. At one time Mark McGwire had the highest club head speed TaylorMade had tested at 122 although Titleist had some real high numbers for Zuback.
Hogan's swing speed
- Thread starter thefuture37
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tongzilla
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Yes, that is true. But adjusting for a few degrees of loft to infer distance change is much easier than adjusting for driver head (metal, thin face) and shaft.
I believe Golf Magazine did a feature story on comparing how things have changed with today's launch conditions vs. the Titleist professional/balata days.
Ball spin was high (4000rpm) with a low launch angle (8-10*)
Ball speed to swing speed ratio for a persimmon club is unclear. Can anyone get this ratio for a club similar to what Hogan used?
From there, we can solve the equations for a reasonable estimate of swing speed to acheive a 250-260 carry.
Regards,
Todd
Ball spin was high (4000rpm) with a low launch angle (8-10*)
Ball speed to swing speed ratio for a persimmon club is unclear. Can anyone get this ratio for a club similar to what Hogan used?
From there, we can solve the equations for a reasonable estimate of swing speed to acheive a 250-260 carry.
Regards,
Todd
thefuture37
Banned
So using 4000rpm and 8-10 launch angle, and the previous 270 yard three wood carry number, you would need 171ballspeed for 8 degree launch or 170 ballspeed for 10 degree launch. So that puts the high end of his normal swing speed at 114mph.
I'll post pictures shortly of what you're suggesting. We need to be more conservative on the ball speed to swing speed ratio. It will not be 1.45 .
Regards,
Todd
Here's a few pictures for review. 171 ball speed is a bit too high because carry exceeds the 250-260 reference point.
If the persimmon driver has a 1.33 ball speed to swing speed ratio, Hogan's swing speed will be around 120 mph. If the ratio is 1.25, it will be 128 mph.
Regards,
Todd
thefuture37
Banned
The effect of the wooden head was already taken into account.
It would be beneficial to get some real data here for a smallish persimmon driver head (note: 975D is around 260cc, obviously not 460cc) @ 43.5".
We're making things complex with taking a look at COR differential and assuming a 1.5 ball speed to swing speed ratio. The technology is here today for a quick answer.
Any volunteers?
Todd
golfbulldog
New
Tongzilla, you know Steve Webster and Robert Rock? European Tour players (Webster more than Rock) but both are slim and small framed guys about the same size as Hogan I imagine...both smash the ball and enjoy alot of lag ... sadly never get to see them much on TV or magazines...
Just checked stats:-
Rock 168lbs and 5'10" driving average 2008 = 294 / 2007 = 289 / 2006 = 295 / 2005 = 305 / 2004 = 302 (yards)
Webster 154 lbs and 5'8" driving average 2008= 280 / 2007 = 286 / 2006 = 290 / 2005 = 293 / 2004 = 293 / 2003 = 296 (yards)
Woosnam is even smaller (5'4" but 168 lbs) ...never averaged more than 281 yards since 1999... great swing though and 281 from a guy that short is really maxing his anatomy.
"I'm only scared of three things: my fist, my roundhouse kick and Ben Hogan". Chuck Norris
lia41985
New member
So the Rock has 3 inches and 31 pounds on Ben Hogan. Webster has an inch an 17 pounds. Woosnam has an inch and 31 pounds. I don't know what the obsession to hold up Hogan is around the golf forum world, but please speak in the realm of reality.
No offense, really. Hogan was one of the 5 best players ever, but come on--just because Chamblee basically offers to give Tiger a hand with wiping or taking a leak doesn't mean you need to excavate old Ben Hogan from his grave and give him a piggy back ride...
self-mastery
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I believe that Hogan could walk on water, levitate, teleport, and out drive JB Holmes.
tongzilla
New
I believe Hogan can make you slice.
Chris Sturgess
New member
Lia is cracking me up in this thread. And btw, Hogan would have totally kicked Chuck Norris ass too.
golfbulldog
New
Woosnam was 2.5 inches shorter, Webster 1 inch taller, both have swings that are dynamic, lots of lag and are human...just like Hogan.... so they provide a fair comparison for Hogan...trying to estimate his swing speed is useless ... but finding similar swings styles and physiques is a more realistic way of doing it.
Do you think that body mass is significant in determining driver distance?
Does "Tungsten Byron" hit further than his skinny cousin "Iron Byron" ?
shortgamer
New
After shooting his 7th straight 19 at pebble beach Ben Hogan gave up golf citing "this game is f'in impossible".
thefuture37
Banned
Of course body mass is significant. Body mass includes muscle doesn't it? Your iron byron example isn't relevant because that machine doesn't use its "body" to hit the ball, the same way a human can. Iron byron is a machine used to test golf clubs, not a model of the ideal human golf swing.
self-mastery
New
tongzilla
New
The trick is knowing which bits you need.
For example, most people can't cope with that sharp acc #2 angle. And it's not because of a physical limitation, since a lot of people can pose it when taught.
birdie_man
New
Bahaha.
BTW good last post Leo. I can pose it. (or practice swing it) Up to now- no luck with a real, live golf ball.
Same deal with the bent left wrist.
BTW Hogan would supinate the crap out of Chuck Norris. Beat his ass too.
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