Theory for teaching beginners

[dsmith2296]

For the first time in my life, I taught someone I did not know on the range. I do not profess to be a golf instructor and I did not get paid for it. But the guy was engaging in conversation and he was really hacking at it, so I spent some time with him.

I immediately wondered how in the world an instructor would begin. Mainstream golf lessons would start with grip, alignment, stance, posture, takeaway, etc. I asked the guy what he was working on and he said "consistency".

His grip did not offend me, so I decided to throw all that other stuff out and told him he needed to learn to generate power and store energy. The guy was my size and was hitting 100 yard pitching irons and 60 yard sand wedges. I showed him that with literally 50% of his backswing, I could hit a 120 yard pitching wedge and an 80 yard sand wedge. Or with MY full swing (short of parallel), a 130 yard pw and 100 yard sw.

His backswing took him all the way to the top and beyond. I then demonstrated a 3/4 elbow plane swing with a lagging clubhead takeaway and a fold of my right elbow and pivot back to initiate the downswing. I showed him how that little action packed a whallop of power.

I told him to tinker around with generating and storing power first, then start worrying about where the ball is going.

He genuinely appreciated the different angle I was trying to relay to him and was exciting to work on something new.

I told him that when he could start 'punching' his sw 75 yards, I'd be happy to help him further.

So maybe I gave this guy horrible advice, but he shoots 100 so what damage could I have done?

 

[Zztop]

For the first time in my life, I taught someone I did not know on the range. I do not profess to be a golf instructor and I did not get paid for it. But the guy was engaging in conversation and he was really hacking at it, so I spent some time with him.

I immediately wondered how in the world an instructor would begin. Mainstream golf lessons would start with grip, alignment, stance, posture, takeaway, etc. I asked the guy what he was working on and he said "consistency".

His grip did not offend me, so I decided to throw all that other stuff out and told him he needed to learn to generate power and store energy. The guy was my size and was hitting 100 yard pitching irons and 60 yard sand wedges. I showed him that with literally 50% of his backswing, I could hit a 120 yard pitching wedge and an 80 yard sand wedge. Or with MY full swing (short of parallel), a 130 yard pw and 100 yard sw.

His backswing took him all the way to the top and beyond. I then demonstrated a 3/4 elbow plane swing with a lagging clubhead takeaway and a fold of my right elbow and pivot back to initiate the downswing. I showed him how that little action packed a whallop of power.

I told him to tinker around with generating and storing power first, then start worrying about where the ball is going.

He genuinely appreciated the different angle I was trying to relay to him and was exciting to work on something new.

I told him that when he could start 'punching' his sw 75 yards, I'd be happy to help him further.

So maybe I gave this guy horrible advice, but he shoots 100 so what damage could I have done?

Did you show him how and where the clubhead/face touches the golfball for proper impact?

 

[2mongoose]

I've only given one "lesson" to a complete stranger that approached me on the range. I was quite perplexed as to why this guy was watching me beat balls for 15 min but once he asked for help it made sense

I thought about the same thing when I was done...grip, stance, aim, etc.

I did take a look at this grip, explained the left wrist flat/right wrist bent at impact stuff and that the clubshaft should lean forward at impact. That last one was quite the eye opener for him.

I too had him hit a bunch of punch shots w/ a wedge to try and get him to feel compression.

The thing I struggle w/ is communication. I have a friend who I think could play really good golf if he put anything into it but I have a hard time getting ideas to click w/ him. People who can really teach, in whatever avenue of life, have that unique ability to tailor a message so their students get it. The information itself is finite. The challenge is explaining it.

 

[Zztop]

I've only given one "lesson" to a complete stranger that approached me on the range. I was quite perplexed as to why this guy was watching me beat balls for 15 min but once he asked for help it made sense

I thought about the same thing when I was done...grip, stance, aim, etc.

I did take a look at this grip, explained the left wrist flat/right wrist bent at impact stuff and that the clubshaft should lean forward at impact. That last one was quite the eye opener for him.

I too had him hit a bunch of punch shots w/ a wedge to try and get him to feel compression.

The thing I struggle w/ is communication. I have a friend who I think could play really good golf if he put anything into it but I have a hard time getting ideas to click w/ him. People who can really teach, in whatever avenue of life, have that unique ability to tailor a message so their students get it. The information itself is finite. The challenge is explaining it.

It feels like. is hard to describe in words and pictures if the one your trying to teach has not experienced that feel. You can only try your best, using any method you might think would work and still you might fail or succeed.

 

[dsmith2296]

I think when he saw that I could punch a wedge 20 yards further than his full mighty swing, he was amazed at what he was not being taught.

This thread is really deeper than my silly advice to a random guy. I don't think that most golf teachers (brian excluded) begin where they need to.

Who cares how this guy is lined up? He's 5'10", 180 pounds, 40-ish and should be able to hit a 120 yard pitching wedge with a 3/4 swing.

I am going on record as saying that consistency is obviously key, but power is ignored too much by mainstream golf teachers.

 

[Zztop]

I think when he saw that I could punch a wedge 20 yards further than his full mighty swing, he was amazed at what he was not being taught.

This thread is really deeper than my silly advice to a random guy. I don't think that most golf teachers (brian excluded) begin where they need to.

Who cares how this guy is lined up? He's 5'10", 180 pounds, 40-ish and should be able to hit a 120 yard pitching wedge with a 3/4 swing.

I am going on record as saying that consistency is obviously key, but power is ignored too much by mainstream golf teachers.

I know someone 5'6', weighs 125lbs. and is 28, hits it a ton and is a hell of a player but i doubt that when he takes our money, age ,weight and height is ever attributed to the a...s kicking he gives us.

I guarantee he knows how to compress that little white rock among a few other things that he knows how to do, like putt and chip, which i'm sure the ball could care less about his weight, age , height! Jamie Sandlowski comes to mind, hope i spelled his name right, if not I apologize.

 

[dsmith2296]

I know someone 5'6', weighs 125lbs. and is 28, hits it a ton and is a hell of a player but i doubt that when he takes our money, age ,weight and height is ever attributed to the a...s kicking he gives us.

I guarantee he knows how to compress that little white rock among a few other things that he knows how to do, like putt and chip, which i'm sure the ball could care less about his weight, age , height! Jamie Sandlowski comes to mind, hope i spelled his name right, if not I apologize.

I think you missed my point- which is basically that a grown man should not be hitting 100 pitching wedges unless he has physical limitations.

 

[Zztop]

Power is useless without the proper ability to apply it.

 

[Zztop]

I think you missed my point- which is basically that a grown man should not be hitting 100 pitching wedges unless he has physical limitations.

He has the ability and the power but does not know -The how to apply it properly part! I understand perfectly what your point is and that is my response to it, thrice.

 

[Kevin Shields]

There are soooo many ways to go about teaching a beginner. Grip aim posture etc. Core info like address vs. impact. Building blocks. Back and forth drill and shape it from there. Chip pitch punch. I like to give them a grip and have em wail at it and just go from there. I think even if they are raw beginners you still have to see what they have before too much "golf" info is given.

 

[Zztop]

There are soooo many ways to go about teaching a beginner. Grip aim posture etc. Core info like address vs. impact. Building blocks. Back and forth drill and shape it from there. Chip pitch punch. I like to give them a grip and have em wail at it and just go from there. I think even if they are raw beginners you still have to see what they have before too much "golf" info is given.

The chip, pitch, punch. What does this teach the raw beginner?

 

[needham]

The chip, pitch, punch. What does this teach the raw beginner?

it teaches them to build it one piece at a time to something soild

 

[Zztop]

it teaches them to build it one piece at a time to something soild

What does the first one teach? and if you can't perform properly the first one how can you build to the next one? or do you stay with the first one till the person can perform it or does anyone have the time and patience for that?

 

[softconsult]

This is what I have concluded. This is not just about golf.

Many people I have encountered over these many years are communication
challenged. They communicate fine on simple things, but ask them to describe something that is outside there comfort zone and they fail miserably.
Here's an example from yesterday, and this is a college grad calling me. "I can't print. I click the button and nothing happens." She said nothing else. Finally, after asking several questions, I determined the what happened , when did it happen, and what has changed answers.

I play in a Seniors Golf League. Every tournament you have different cart companion. The people who are unable to carry on a conversation, or ask simple starter questions are easily over 50%. So what does this have to do with the subject at hand?

In my opinion, it does no good to understand the subject, Golf Instruction, if you can't communicate the knowledge to the student.

I am not a Golf Instructor, but I know more than a little about the game. I also have a knack for helping people who ask. I have told that I am a good communicator. I never volunteer. I think you have to first confirm that they actually want to put some effort into trying something new. Many times they actually, for some reason, simply can't or won't expend the effort after the instruction.

The one's that can perform the change quickly, are very satisfying. Here are three examples.

70 year old acquaintance warming up beside me on the range before the tournament. Shot after shot to the right. He asks me why. I walked over, and moved the ball forward about 1 or 2 balls. He started hitting it straight. That was it.

50 year old guy, athletic, strong, obviously a jock, but struggling. He asked for help. I said, "It's obvious to me that you are a jock. Is that true?" He answered that had played semi-pro baseball, and his father was in the Negro League Hall of Fame. So I changed his grip, changed ball position, and explained a few more things which I don't recall. Noticed that he had long fingers and standard sized grips. Next time I saw him, he had mid-size grips, and told me he was playing much, much better. Big smile!

Finally, a guy around 70 years old was hitting near me. He was dinking it out there and muttering to himself. We struck up a conversation. He explained that he was a scratch player in his 20's, had always been athletic and still was for his age. Golf was suffering for some reason. He asked me what I saw. I said Grip problem. We worked for 20 minutes or so on this topic.
The result was a 20 yard increase instantly. His smile was enough reward.

I'm smiling to myself on the grip subject. The first 30 minutes of my lesson with Brian consisted of him changing my grip, which was too weak.

I would also comment that I dis-agree with the statement earlier in the thread about grown men only hitting a Pitching Wedge 100 yards being a problem. This demonstrates a mis-understanding of the yardage stats for
for males golfers. There are a whole lot of folks hitting their wedges that distance. Who cares whether it's 100, 110, 120, or 150. I regularly watch guys, who hit a hybrid in from 150, shoot in the low 80's. It's called short game excellence.

So that's my treatise on amateur golf instruction.

 

[dsmith2296]

I agree that many may taylor their wedge shots for shorter distances. I was really just making the point that I see guys 'throwing away' their wedges all of the time, hitting skulls, fats, or scooping the ball 30 yards short of the distance they could be achieving. And most pop instructors don't teach lag-- they just try to help the guy achieve consistency.

Teachers always talk about overswinging and over accelerating and swinging too hard. But how often do you see a teacher teach power?

 

[softconsult]

Now I agree totally with the no lag thing. To me it is an absence of footwork.
Learn the right sequence, and almost anyone could learn to hit a wedge 100 yards. Having said that, I chillied one on my last outing. Actually more a trench with a huge divot. I moved on an uphill wedge.

 

[Zztop]

This is what I have concluded. This is not just about golf.

Many people I have encountered over these many years are communication
challenged. They communicate fine on simple things, but ask them to describe something that is outside there comfort zone and they fail miserably.
Here's an example from yesterday, and this is a college grad calling me. "I can't print. I click the button and nothing happens." She said nothing else. Finally, after asking several questions, I determined the what happened , when did it happen, and what has changed answers.

I play in a Seniors Golf League. Every tournament you have different cart companion. The people who are unable to carry on a conversation, or ask simple starter questions are easily over 50%. So what does this have to do with the subject at hand?

In my opinion, it does no good to understand the subject, Golf Instruction, if you can't communicate the knowledge to the student.

I am not a Golf Instructor, but I know more than a little about the game. I also have a knack for helping people who ask. I have told that I am a good communicator. I never volunteer. I think you have to first confirm that they actually want to put some effort into trying something new. Many times they actually, for some reason, simply can't or won't expend the effort after the instruction.

The one's that can perform the change quickly, are very satisfying. Here are three examples.

70 year old acquaintance warming up beside me on the range before the tournament. Shot after shot to the right. He asks me why. I walked over, and moved the ball forward about 1 or 2 balls. He started hitting it straight. That was it.

50 year old guy, athletic, strong, obviously a jock, but struggling. He asked for help. I said, "It's obvious to me that you are a jock. Is that true?" He answered that had played semi-pro baseball, and his father was in the Negro League Hall of Fame. So I changed his grip, changed ball position, and explained a few more things which I don't recall. Noticed that he had long fingers and standard sized grips. Next time I saw him, he had mid-size grips, and told me he was playing much, much better. Big smile!

Finally, a guy around 70 years old was hitting near me. He was dinking it out there and muttering to himself. We struck up a conversation. He explained that he was a scratch player in his 20's, had always been athletic and still was for his age. Golf was suffering for some reason. He asked me what I saw. I said Grip problem. We worked for 20 minutes or so on this topic.
The result was a 20 yard increase instantly. His smile was enough reward.

I'm smiling to myself on the grip subject. The first 30 minutes of my lesson with Brian consisted of him changing my grip, which was too weak.

I would also comment that I dis-agree with the statement earlier in the thread about grown men only hitting a Pitching Wedge 100 yards being a problem. This demonstrates a mis-understanding of the yardage stats for
for males golfers. There are a whole lot of folks hitting their wedges that distance. Who cares whether it's 100, 110, 120, or 150. I regularly watch guys, who hit a hybrid in from 150, shoot in the low 80's. It's called short game excellence.

So that's my treatise on amateur golf instruction.

The thing i find interesting about your treatise is you could help other people, but couldn't help yourself. Do you have an opinion or theory why that would be the case, not trying to start an argument, just looking for an honest opinion. or maybe you can help yourself now, also does helping others help you with your swing problems?

 

[pecky987]

The thing i find interesting about your treatise is you could help other people, but couldn't help yourself. Do you have an opinion or theory why that would be the case, not trying to start an argument, just looking for an honest opinion. or maybe you can help yourself now, also does helping others help you with your swing problems?

im in the same boat. i can help other people more than i can help myself

 

[Zztop]

im in the same boat. i can help other people more than i can help myself

Yeah it seems like that's the case with a lot of people. Wondering why?

 

[alexlimco]

Yeah it seems like that's the case with a lot of people. Wondering why?

Probably because you are not standing on the other side. U can only 'feel' what you are doing but what you are feeling is not actually what is happening. That's why doctors can't cure themselves too.