What Fredrik Tuxen, CTO of TrackMan, had to say about "zeroing out"

[Brian Manzella]

What did Mr. Tuxen say.

Did he side with the argument of Brian Manzella, who says unless there is a really good reason, you should try to "zero out" the path and clubface numbers of a golfer, when you are working on improving a golfer's swing with the assistance of TrackMan.

Or...

Should you try to hit intentional fades and draws, giving you a "window" to have the clubface in, because trying to have "zeros" leave a bigger margin for error, and, according to some, there are "clear difficulties" in doing so.

Give me a break.

Zeroes, baby.

Why?

Because there are "clear difficulties" alright, but these are NOT from trying to ZERO OUT, but are from trying to align yourself and your swing in multiple different amounts to one side or the other. You would almost need an abacus to figure out all the differences.

Not only that, zeroing out gives the golf ball its MAXIMUM ENERGY TRANSFER.

And, while we're at it, what about hitting up on a driver?

Yup, I was right about that too.

Ho-hum.

Much better spin rate, launch angle and an extra 2 MPHs of ball speed.

 

[greenfree]

Quote: Because there are "clear difficulties" alright, but these are NOT from trying to ZERO OUT, but are from trying to align yourself and your swing in multiple different amounts to one side or the other. You would almost need an abacus to figure out all the differences.


Someone pointed this out a while back in a post. They said have fun trying to get people to do this when people have a hard time lining up a 3 foot putt. By the way where can one get an abacus?

 

[Kevin Shields]

I'm sure we will go into this at length, but the basis for his "zeroes" opinion is it would be much easier to vary the amount down you strike with each club and keep the same plane line to acheive a zero path. This being opposed to the varying amount of difference between clubface and path through the set to get the same curve as well as matching plane line and and attack angle to keep the path in check.

Kinda makes me think how the players of today get knocked for not working the ball. Maybe the future is who can hit the most straight balls.

 

[greenfree]

Still swing left?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Still swing left?

Swing left enough and vary the amount of down is what they are saying

 

[Richie3Jack]

Kinda makes me think how the players of today get knocked for not working the ball. Maybe the future is who can hit the most straight balls.

I think you would agree with me, but knocking Tour players for not working the ball is absurd. I've played with a few current and former Tour players and they all could work it in either direction on command when needed. I always kind of felt that was more or less 'the goal' of golf, to hit it long and straight. Certainly if you feel comfortable hitting a fade or a draw, then go with it. But I don't understand the idea that you cannot be comfortable hitting it straight.




3JACK

 

[greenfree]

I think you would agree with me, but knocking Tour players for not working the ball is absurd. I've played with a few current and former Tour players and they all could work it in either direction on command when needed. I always kind of felt that was more or less 'the goal' of golf, to hit it long and straight. Certainly if you feel comfortable hitting a fade or a draw, then go with it. But I don't understand the idea that you cannot be comfortable hitting it straight.




3JACK

Not exactly, the goal of golf is to use the least amount of strokes. If that means straight shots great, but if it means left to right or right to left shots what difference does it make, lowest score is the idea no matter how you do it.

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

I'm sure we will go into this at length, but the basis for his "zeroes" opinion is it would be much easier to vary the amount down you strike with each club and keep the same plane line to acheive a zero path. This being opposed to the varying amount of difference between clubface and path through the set to get the same curve as well as matching plane line and and attack angle to keep the path in check.

Kinda makes me think how the players of today get knocked for not working the ball. Maybe the future is who can hit the most straight balls.

Kevin, please correct me if I am wrong, but if we want to maintain the same AoA with our irons, would not having the same length iron and simply varying the loft make our iron game easier to master? I vaguely recall seeing some article or infomercial or something about such a system.

 

[Matt Bryda]

Kevin, please correct me if I am wrong, but if we want to maintain the same AoA with our irons, would not having the same length iron and simply varying the loft make our iron game easier to master? I vaguely recall seeing some article or infomercial or something about such a system.

maybe, but..

It would be much harder to control your distances

Matt

 

[mgranato]

maybe, but..

It would be much harder to control your distances

Matt

Not really, but you would have one heck of a crappy feeling set of irons. The heads get heavier through the set so the swing weights would go up through the set as well.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Kevin, please correct me if I am wrong, but if we want to maintain the same AoA with our irons, would not having the same length iron and simply varying the loft make our iron game easier to master? I vaguely recall seeing some article or infomercial or something about such a system.

No. With the varying plane angles versus the COG of short irons lining up and such it wouldnt help. Id go further with an explanation but im sure Mandrin or Paul Wood would destroy me with all my inadaquate technical terms. Basically, there's prob a real good reason PING hasnt done something like this already.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Not exactly, the goal of golf is to use the least amount of strokes. If that means straight shots great, but if it means left to right or right to left shots what difference does it make, lowest score is the idea no matter how you do it.

I probably should've re-phrased that. When you hear novices talk about good golfers they usually remark how long and straight they hit it and how their goal is to hit it long and straight. Obviously, you can work. Lucas Glover hits a big ole hook and is a great ballstriker. So did Billy Casper. And distance control plays a factor as well. But 'long and straight' is usually what most golfers strive to achieve in their ballstriking.

And like I said, the reasoning that it's okay to feel comfortable working the ball with a fade or a draw, but not a straight ball doesn't make a lot of sense to me.







3JACK

 

[aaron_lohan]

Kevin, please correct me if I am wrong, but if we want to maintain the same AoA with our irons, would not having the same length iron and simply varying the loft make our iron game easier to master? I vaguely recall seeing some article or infomercial or something about such a system.

This has been tried, an equipment manufacturer designed a set of irons all with the same lengths but different lofts, the results were that the short irons went too far and the long irons werent long enough, also the consistency wasn't great.

 

[bax1865]

All things being equal doesn't always work

They were made by Tommy Armour, just the beginning of the end for a company that had great success with the 845's

 

[adrwcav]

so we should swing the same amount left, just vary the AoA ???

 

[Richie3Jack]

so we should swing the same amount left, just vary the AoA ???

No.

Your AoA should vary with each club. You should be having a steeper AoA with a SW than a 5-iron, etc.

Thus, the horizontal plane needs to vary with each club.




3JACK

 

[Kevin Shields]

Actually, if your attack angle was different with each club, you can have the exact same horizontal plane line throughout the bag when hitting off the ground.

 

[Jon Hardesty]

Thats a fact!!!

 

[mb6606]

Is it possible to have a postive angle of attack with a 7 iron?? If so can you play consistant golf this way?

 

[goley]

I posted a thread awhile back about a friend of mine and his Taylor Made MAT experience. His attack angle with a 7 iron was +2 on average... so i guess it is possible. He rarley take a divot and never really compress the ball....but he usually shoots somewhere near par. I found the thread but the link for the spreadsheet from taylor made are no longer available.