12-4-0

[Brian Manzella]

Here is the often disscussed, but far less often understood, maximum pattern by Homer Kelley as published in the hard to find third edition.

If Danny or Joe wants me to take this down, I will.

 

[matt]

The real question is...why was it pulled from subsequent editions? Certainly not because Homer thought it was the "ideal pattern."

Obviously Homer discovered much more after the publishing of this pattern, as shown by his recommended "double shift" in component 7. So where did the pattern go? If it's still so ideal, why wasn't it in the 6th edition?

 

[MizunoJoe]

From release point to separation, a player can use CF OR right tricep thrust, BUT NOT BOTH. HK came to realize this and removed the error from the earlier edition.

 

[Brian Manzella]

matt,

The POINT was, and is, that is IS and will ALWAYS BE a viable pattern.

...if you read elsewhere, you think Ben Doyle was teachins the Jim Flick pattern from "how to become a complete golfer."

 

[MizunoJoe]

Brian,

Then why was it removed from the 6th edition?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Homer also removed much of chapter 8, and a lot of it was great stuff.

He wanted BREVITY.

and he thought that the patterns (1&2) were good starting points that could stand on their own.

My point...which keeps being missed...is that the golfers who can do 12-4-0, are more impressive ball strikers (sometimes) that the 1&2ers.

 

[MizunoJoe]

Brian,

I'm not missing your point about "players who can do 12-4-0". I'm saying that there are no such players.

Ben says that the "Hit" starts when the player "lays the shaft on the line". At that point CF has started unloading #2 accumulator. Even if said player has the reflexes of a leopard, the strength of Hercules, and more fast twitch muscles in his tricep than Mercury's legs, any right arm thrust will stifle CF and slow the shaft down.

 

[6bee1dee]

Homer allowed several of his early AIs to explore the possibilities. It was the early stages of The Golfing Machine’s exploration.
It only makes sense that somebody would try to include all four barrels in the beginning. "Seems reasonable" to me. And as a Hit Stroke it can be accomplished.
Maybe a “gifted COMPETITOR” with fortitude and dedication could put in the required practice to use this as a Swing pattern, but that isn’t a tenth of one per cent of the golfers that own the book.
It was cut out in later editions not just because of its high risk but to keep the book the same size when new information was included.

I don't know where "elsewhere" is, but nobody ever put Doyle in Flick's class. Ben is a very important instructor with The Golfing Machine but nobody is above a small amount of constructive analysis. To me, Ben is a Hall of Famer.

 

[matt]

thanks for the reply Brian

 

[lagster]

Why the Closed-Closed Plane Line?

I'm not sure about 4-barrel swinging, but it may be just another VARIATION, of which there are many. It is hard to tell if "the horse is pulling the wagon, or pushing on the collar."

 

[Brian Manzella]

lagster...

for MAX backswing length.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

matt,

The POINT was, and is, that is IS and will ALWAYS BE a viable pattern.

...if you read elsewhere, you think Ben Doyle was teachins the Jim Flick pattern from "how to become a complete golfer."

Ben Doyle is a World-Class Instructor whose 50 years on the Tee and overall influence on the profession deserves a special commendation from the PGA of America.

 

[bantamben1]

i agree i here some people talk down about ben and his methods. i think without ben there would be no golfing machine today he taught the most famous tgm player and probably like at least 75% of the tgm taught players to make it to the pga tour. although i hold homer in great regard for his dedication and research in writing the golfing machine ben doyle has been applying those teaching to players for over 35 years, he makes it simple and has found what parts of tgm to teach to different individuals, i think anyone would do very well to spend some time at bdu. and also in reply to mizuno joe your telling me that youve never hit hard with your right side on a full drive once the shaft was on the line. alot of tour players do this they let cf get the swing started and then hit with there right arm through impact.

 

[bantamben1]

i have a question for holenone is larry nelson a four barrel player because he takes his swing to the end and i know you cant hit straight from the top so hes letting cf get him to the side where he can start hitting right.

 

[MizunoJoe]

bantamben1,

I didn't tell you that - In a Right Arm Swing, the right forearm is fanned through Impact just as Tomasello teaches. But on a 3-barrel Left Arm Swing - any attempt to add right tricep thrust will interfere with CF and nullify it. I can also hit hard with the right side in a Hitting procedure.

Nelson, a 4-barrel Hitter according to holen1, uses Pivot Thrust as a launching pad for Hitting, BUT, he is NOT using CF in such a way as to add thrust to CF. Sorry, it's not additive, but preemtive. Any player who uses CF and switches to Right Arm Thrust between release and separation is getting ONLY the thrust and CF is totally overridden.

Ask holen1 if 4-barrel Swinging exists.

 

[rwh]

Brian,

I'm having some difficulty understanding exactly what a player would DO to create the "Four Barrell" swing. Since the Pattern calls for Drag Loading, I assume it "starts out" as a Swinging procedure. Can you talk us through it from the Top of the swing? Thanks.

 

[dude]

quote:Originally posted by holenone

quote:Originally posted by brianman

matt,

The POINT was, and is, that is IS and will ALWAYS BE a viable pattern.

...if you read elsewhere, you think Ben Doyle was teachins the Jim Flick pattern from "how to become a complete golfer."

Ben Doyle is a World-Class Instructor whose 50 years on the Tee and overall influence on the profession deserves a special commendation from the PGA of America.

Lynn,

I was pointed to this thread so here goes.

Should I create a vacancy in a couple of condos? PGA might not do anything but I am sure we could have a good time.

golfingrandy/Randy