2008 PGA Teaching and Coaching Summit review.

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Painful.

That's the only word that comes to mind after three days of attending the 11th PGA Teaching & Coaching Summit in Port St. Lucie, Florida.

I have attended them all, and this was, by far, the worst. It was also the worst attended, and that is a direct result of how poor the previous few were.

There is large disconnect in the golf teaching business nowadays.

The best and brightest are not doing the talks. There were multiple up and coming—and already there—PGA Tour Instructors in attendance who have never gotten the chance to present at one of these so-called "Summits," and they were left to wonder why they showed up for a gaggle of presentations heavy on the explaining on what they were going to present on, but woefully light on the actual presenting of this material.

Motivational Speaker Rick Rigsby was the first to present on "Making and Impact."

He is a very loud, high-energy guy, and basically talked about how his Dad's wisdom was the basis for the programs taught at several colleges to athletes about doing what's "right." He pulled at your heart strings with one story, and sounded like a modern Knute Rocke with another.

Very good overall, but would have been better if the speakers would have been adjusted for a guy who didn't need them.

Callaway's Jeff Colton and Randy Peterson talked about fitting parameters, and did a sound if unspectacular job. They explained how hitting up and down on drivers produce different spin and why. They cleared up some misconceptions of my own, but should have done a live "mini-fit," at least.

So far, so good.

Dave Phillips gave a very good explanation of why TPI is so big on screenings and the basic fact of stable-flexible-stable segments in the body.

But, to me, he ruined the presentation by suggesting that nearly all swing faults are physical in nature. Ba-Loney! He needs to watch someone fix a slicer who knows how, as well as watch a few out-of-shape under the planers show up for lessons.

Good stuff clouded by a TPI informercial and totally un-scientific, biased "findings."

Greg Rose of TPI and Dave Donaducci of the PGA Learning Center, gave nice presentations on the body, and how a modern dad would raise a top level athlete. But they were very long, and to me, misplaced.

I have no problem with a more than a half day of non-Golf topics, but there is already a better attended summit specifically on "Golf Fitness."

Each day concluded with a "Round Table" non-discussion, where co-MCs Laird Small and Suzy Whaley asked questions submitted by the attendees on paper.

This KILLED any good interaction, and while I realize the PGA is anti-debate, this format is so dull, if they keep it up, they won't have to worry about any debate. There will be no one in the stands.

Day 2 focused on "learning," but they all seemed to ignore how some good teachers can get the job done the old-fashioned way. My only explanation for some of the presentations was that the presenters have never seen someone who can teach different patterns and different level students, while actually doing a good job with the students enjoying themselves.

Sad really. Surely the goal would be to find the folks who can, studying them, and have them speak. But, we all know better.

Mike Hebron and Susie Berdoy Meyers talked about not teaching but "letting the student learn."

I agree on many of the "don't dos" that they talked about, but honestly, I can fix a grip without someone getting offended or never learning how. I liked the thesis, but the application was fairly weak.

After they were finished Mike asked me what I thought, and I told him "good job" mostly because he made several good points like not telling the whole world golf is hard. But, in retrospect, the demonstration of how they use their model in the real world, made you think about listening to Oprah talk about how men are all pigs. Thankfully, in the real world, folks are "hooking up" every day, anyway.

Regular old teaching, as in, "Let me show you where I want you to get your left hand at the top," can be done the "right way" to encourage self discovery, without sounding preachy and turning off the student's brain.

Geez.

I didn't watch the "Play Golf America" presentation. Neither did 50% of the crowd, who instead talked and had Kashi bars and Diet Pepsi.

The next presentation was on teaching the handicapped, and the presenters did a good job, but should have done more live teaching with the four golfers who patiently waited through three overly long, dull, slide heavy talks.

We were then treated to a three-man live teaching "symposium" with the last three PGA Teachers of the Year: Jim Hardy, Bill Forest, and Martin Hall.

First, each teacher gave a 30 minute talk on their teaching philosophy.

I have heard Jim Hardy speak seven or eight times now, and I can honestly say that he gives a whole new meaning to "simplicity by omission." Hardy just continues to confuse plane angle with release types, and lumps forward leaning shafts—or not—with whatever category fits his limited methodology.

Bill Forest's talk was one part good common teaching sense, and five parts "first assistant pro" complaining. "Some people are just bad students."

Mr. Miyagi shed in a tear in movie heaven.

Martin Hall did a solid, if a bit rushed, job with his talk. Martin likes to have more time then 30 minutes, but he managed a couple of real zingers of opinion anyway, based on years of real world teaching. I even got a mention from the 2008 PGA Teacher of the Year—"...and Brian Manzella's influence..."—as Martin did his usual good job of giving credit where credit is due. He even threw George Hibbard a bone! Good show, ole chap!

Then the format had the teachers all watch a student, do the opening of their lesson, and initial evaluation, and then were told to by the PGA NOT to actually teach.

The fear was another giant Terradactyl egg being laid, like the one Peter Krause famously did a couple of years ago.

Thankfully, the teachers couldn't resist teaching, and gave a two to three ball lesson each in most cases, with the four students provided.

Bill Forest looked and sounded out of place amongst Hardy and Hall, and Hardy fooled no-one by "one-planing" every student whether they needed it or not.

Martin Hall emerged as the clear winner, with a no nonsense, common sense approach using lots of video and his trusty plane board and big faced Fred Flintstone club. He also was quite funny and direct in the following round table, and Hardy gets kudos for bucking the trend of "physical evaluations for all."

Day 3—"Technology Day" started, rather oddly, with a David Donatucci talk on Nutrition.

However, his presentation was concise, to the point, and only 30 minutes long. Very good stuff as well.

Perhaps the best presentation of this Summit was Errie Ball, the only living golfer to have played in the first Masters.

Mr. Ball was totally devoid of fluff, full of good stories, and a great history lesson in the flesh. Laird Small's questions were a little sophomoric, but included enough references to Hogan and Snead and old equipment to make this segment an easy A+.

Even more amazing was how well the 96 year old Ball hit the driver! About 180 yards dead straight. He could easily break 85 on a 113 slope course playing hard and fast.

Chris Welch's talk on 3D Motion Analysis was good, and his finding after 20 years in that profession would hurt the feelings of the "Don't try to snap your Kinetic Chain" crowd. I asked him personally about this after his talk and he said, basically, if you can do it, do it. If you can't, you'd better learn how.

The next presentation was about the V1 software system. To be honest, their 1980's style graphics look so bad on the screen, I cringe every time I see them. Chris Hart talked at length about the Casio EX-F1, but did a poor job explaining the exciting new product. Ben Doyle, sitting next to me, wants to know about the camera, but still didn't understand the features after the talk. Ben did like some of Ross Kroekers real-world uses of V1, however. I missed that one, doing a D-Plane impromptu presentation for a couple of PGA Tour instructors on the "village green."

Dan Goldstein, with the help of Eric Hogge (formerly of Louisville, KY, now at the host PGA Learning Center) presented on the force plate COG measurement device. I have seen the device several times, and heard Dan a bunch as well. It was, like almost all the other talks, too heavy on the "how this works," and WAY too light on "let me show you real world how this works."

A look at using stats as a tool to sell lessons and encourage practice followed the DBS system, with Andy Beyer as the lead presenter, and again using the Learning Center's Hogge in the Ed McMahon role. The talk was ok, but what I came away with was how well Hogge came across in a Summit of big names. Not taking anything from Eric, a good guy who I know pretty well from Louisville, but he is a "real-world" teacher and some of the name guys are on Fantasy Island. Good job, Eric.

Mike Bender loves flat back swings as much as Hardy, and his talk threw physics around like his method was approved by Aaron Zick, but I doubt this would be the case. To me, as well as several others, it all sounded like reprocessed 1990 MORAD. He even confused MORAD terms with TGM terms, but so what. The real problem with Hardy and Bender's talks was the lack of having a fact checker or two to raise the red flag at the appropriate times. Unfortunately, he and Hardy's good ideas are floating around in the bowl with too much B.S.

The PGA is in the process of hiring a replacement for former Director of Instruction Rick Martino, and they better pick well. The Summit will be high on their list of projects to fix, and it needs lots of fixing.

One more "Summit" with little debate, no interaction, and same-old presenters, and it will rest on the scrap heap of good ideas gone bad.

Even grading on the lenient curve of previous summits, it was no better than a C-
 

Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Brian,

Happy Birthday and great post!
Thanks for saving me several hundred bucks.
The real reason we go to these things is to catch up with friends/other instructors and have dinner debates with people who have something new and validly researched to say. Did anything come out of 'those summits'?
 
2008 PGA Teaching and Coaching Summit Review

Brian;
Many thanks for your honest and frank review. I have been on your website everyday since returning from TGM Summit, anxiously awaiting to see if I did the right thing in passing on this years PGA Summit. You gave me the answer and I thank you. Hopefully Rick Martino's successor will inject some new life into the PGA Summit in two years or it could be just like this year and the attendance will keep declining. Is it getting time for a Manzella Summit to happen? If it does it would be the greatest learning experinece for teachers around the world. See you at the Show.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Funny you should ask...

I have grown very tired of going to bad summits.

Me and Mike Jacobs have one in the works.

Details to follow.
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Brain Damage

Brian, you really flattered the summit with your review. I am only just recovering from the 'brain damage' that was nearly non-reversable!

One thing is for sure though it was the best summit ever for networking and discussing ideas on the village green outside the blechers- with all of the great instructors that attended that where never asked to present. I loved speaking to Henry Brunton, Mark Blackburn and the British chaps Reeves, Ian and Chris not to mention Martin Hall.:cool:

Brian your mini manzaposiums that you held during the boring presentations had more interest than the talks being given. Well done mate.
 
Summit Missing Something-ME!

Brian,
Thank you for putting the summit as a subject for discussion. I know your comments are complete and well thought out and appreciated by all. You are blessed to see through the.....I agree that the PGA has to recreate the Teaching Summit. This is the first summit I missed and it had more to do with personal feelings than content inefficiencies, which have become numerous over the years. I missed seeing everyone and the learning that always happened after the summit sessions but the value just was not there for me and I feel that regional summits will replace the one summit every two years or the national summit will be less frequent. The PGA has a big hurdle ahead and the choice they make for the new Teaching Director better be appropriate because the teaching division lost a good one in RM. I feel that his hands were tied by committee demands and the inexplicable reasons that teaching cannot be done interactively with the knowlegeable attendees is simply ridiculous. Any person who cannot moderate the attendees to give the presenter the benefit of the doubt should not be a moderator. RM is one of the most knowlegeable students and teachers of the game and his ability to practicably apply numerous disciplines to get his point across to a student was lost in "committee"! We discussed TMG, LCT, pressure points, accumulators, swinging, hitting, lag loading, ground reaction force, pressure, 3D plane relationships, imperatives, Mr.HK, Ben Doyle, Greg McHatton, Jim Pretralia, Bob Schaeffer, MORAD, etc. back in 1987 when he was at Oakmont
and I could play a bit. He and Harry Toscano made learning more about teaching, clubfitting, playing and learning an art!! If you ever want to see a perfect "swivel" look at some swinging done by HT in his prime and in today's economy his "subprime" would earn double digit returns. His ball never curved. Truly a striking genious.
Sorry to ramble on but, the PGA needs to bring debate, argument and fact based science to the floor to become a viable entity in the teaching world, in my opinion, and they cannot do it too soon!
Mandrins anecdotes, Aaron Zick's findings, 3D machines like the SAM PuttLab, and Trackman, clubfitters like Drew Pierson and James Leitz, great info from BM and other contributors to this forum(even nmgolfer) all have a great place in advancing teaching and the technologies, whether it is standing on the range leaning on a 6-iron to having a multi-million dollar learning center, it still comes down to who can teach and use those technologies when appopriate. There lies the art.
By the way, when is the TGM Summit going to invite non-TGMers to the summit as guests? A good way to introduce the information and perpetuate membership.
I hope you all,(who were able to read this far) have a Merry Christmas, a Happy holiday season and a prosperous new year.
God bless everyone especially those who dare to teach...
 
Interested in what happened with Krause a few years ago? I took a lesson from him fifteen years ago, minutes before I bought a new volvo. The car lasted fourteen and a half years longer than the swing. What caused the egg on the face?
 
Hi Matt - Harry Toscano

Hi Matt -

Harry and his wife Pat were pretty close friends of my wife and I when we traveled the Sr Tour in the 90's.

Next time you see or talk to him let him know that Kathi and I send our best.

Thanks and Happy Holidays

Bruce

Sorry for the OT post.
 
Painful.

That's the only word that comes to mind after three days of attending the 11th PGA Teaching & Coaching Summit in Port St. Lucie, Florida.

I have attended them all, and this was, by far, the worse. It was also the worse attended, and that is a direct result of how poor the previous few were.

There is large disconnect in the golf teaching business now days.

The best and brightest are not doing the talks. There were multiple up and coming—and already there—PGA Tour Instructors in attendance who have never gotten the chance to present at one of these so-called "Summits," and they were a left to wonder why they showed up for a gaggle of presentations heavy on the explaining on what they were going to present on, but woefully light on the actual presenting of this material.

Motivational Speaker Rick Rigsby was the first to present on "Making and Impact."

He is a very loud, high-energy guy, and basically talked about how his Dad's wisdom was the basis for the programs taught at several colleges to athletes about doing what's "right." He pulled at your heart strings with one story, and sounded like a modern Knute Rocke with another.

Very good overall, but would have been better if the speakers would have been adjusted for a guy who didn't need them.

Callaway's Jeff Colton and Randy Peterson talked about fitting parameters, and did a sound if unspectacular job. They explained how hitting up and down on drivers produce different spin and why. They cleared up some misconceptions of my own, but should have done a live "mini-fit," at least.

So far, so good.

Dave Phillips gave a very good explanation of why TPI is so big on screenings and the basic fact of stable-flexible-stable segments in the body.

But, to me, he ruined the presentation by suggesting that nearly all swing faults are physical in nature. Ba-Loney! He needs to watch someone fix a slicer who knows how, as well as watch a few out-of-shape under the planers show up for lessons.

Good stuff clouded by a TPI informercial and totally un-scientific, biased "findings."

Greg Rose of TPI and Dave Donaducci of the PGA Learning Center, gave nice presentations on about the body, and how a modern dad would raise a top level athlete. But they were very long, and to me, misplaced.

I have no problem with a more than a half day of non-Golf topics, but there is already a better attended summit specifically on "Golf Fitness."

Each day concluded with a "Round Table" non-discussion, where co-MCs Laird Small and Suzy Whaley asked questions submitted by the attendees on paper.

This KILLED any good interaction, and while I realize the PGA is anti-debate, this format is so dull, if they keep it up, they won't have to worry about any debate. They be no one in the stands.

Day 2 focused on "learning," but they all seemed to ignore how some good teachers can get the job done the old-fashioned way. My only explanation for some of the presentations was that the presenters have never seen someone who can teach different patterns and different level students, while actually doing a good job with the students enjoying themselves.

Sad really. Surely the goal would be to find the folks who can, studying them, and have them speak. But, we all know better.

Mike Hebron and Susie Berdoy Meyers talked about not teaching but "letting the student learn."

I agree on many of the "don't dos" that they talked about, but honestly, I can fix a grip without someone getting offended or never learning how. I liked the thesis, but the application was fairly weak.

After they were finished Mike asked me what I thought, and I told him "good job" mostly because he made several good points like not telling the whole world golf is hard. But, in retrospect, the demonstration of how they use their model in the real world, made you think about listening to Oprah talk about how men are all pigs. Thankfully, in the real world, folks are "hooking up" every day, anyway.

Regular old teaching, as in, "Let me show you where I want you to get your left hand at the top," can be done the "right way" to encourage self discovery, without sounding preachy and turning off the student's brain.

Geez.

I didn't watch the "Play Golf America" presentation. Neither did 50% of the crowd, who instead talked and had Kashi bars and Diet Pepsi.

The next presentation was on teaching the handicapped, and the presenters did a good job, but should have done more live teaching with the four golfers who patiently waited through three overly long, dull, slide heavy talks.

We were then treated to a three-man live teaching "symposium" with the last three PGA Teachers of the Year: Jim Hardy, Bill Forest, and Martin Hall.

First, each teacher gave a 30 minute talk on their teaching philosophy.

I have heard Jim Hardy speak seven or eight times now, and I can honestly say that he gives a whole to meaning to "simplicity by omission." Hardy just continues to confuse plane angle with release types, and lumps forward leaning shafts—or not—with whatever category fits his limited methodology.

Bill Forest's talk was one part good common teaching sense, and five parts "first assistant pro" complaining. "Some people are just bad students."

Mr. Miyagi shed in a tear in movie heaven.

Martin Hall did a solid, if a bit rushed, job with his talk. Martin likes to have more time then 30 minutes, but he managed a couple of real zingers of opinion anyway, based on years of real world teaching. I even got a mention from the 2008 PGA Teacher of the Year—"...and Brian Manzella's influence..."—as Martin did his usual good job of giving credit where credit is due. He even threw George Hibbard a bone! Good show, ole chap!

Then the format had the teachers all watch a student, do the opening of their lesson, and initial evaluation, and then were told to by the PGA NOT to actually teach.

The fear was another giant Terradactyl egg being laid, like the one Peter Krause famously did a couple of years ago.

Thankfully, the teachers couldn't resist teaching, and gave a two of three ball lesson each in most cases, with the four students provided.

Bill Forest looked and sounded out of place amongst Hardy and Hall, and Hardy fooled no-one by "one-planing" every student whether they needed it or not.

Martin Hall emerged as the clear winner, with a no nonsense, common sensical approach using lots of video and his trusty plane board and big faced Fred Flitstone club. He also was quite funny and direct in the following roundtable, and Hardy gets kudos for bucking the trend of "physical evaluations for all."

Day 3—"Technology Day" started, rather oddly, with a David Donatucci talk on Nutrition.

However, his presentation was concise, to the point, and only 30 minutes long. Very good stuff as well.

Perhaps the best presentation of this Summit was Errie Ball, the only living golfer to have played in the first Masters.

Mr. Ball was totally devoid of fluff, full of good stories, and a great history lesson in the flesh. Laird Small's questions were a little sophomoric, but included enough references to Hogan and Snead and old equipment to make this segment an easy A+.

Even more amazing was how well the 96 year old Ball hit the driver! About 180 yards dead straight. He could easily break 85 on a 113 slope course playing hard and fast.

Chris Welch's talk on 3D Motion Analysis was good, and his finding after 20 years in that profession would hurt the feelings of the "Don't try to snap your Kinetic Chain" crowd. I asked him personally about this after his talk and he said, basically, if you can do it, do it. If you can't, you'd better learn how.

The next presentation was about the V1 software system. To be honest, their 1980's style graphics look so bad on the screen, I cringe every time I see them. Chris Hart talked at length about the Casio EX-F1, but did a poor job explaining the exciting new product. Ben Doyle, sitting next to me, wants to know about the camera, but still didn't understand the features after the talk. Ben did like some of Ross Kroekers real-world uses of V1, however. I missed that one, doing a D-Plane impromptu presentation for a couple of PGA Tour instructors on the "village green."

Dan Goldstein, with the help of Eric Hogge (formerly of Louisville, KY, now at the host PGA Learning Center) presented on the force plate COG measurement device. I have seen the device several times, and heard Dan a bunch as well. It was, like almost all the other talks, too heavy on the "how this works," and WAY too light on "let me show you real world how this works."

A look at using stats as a tool to sell lessons and encourage practice followed the DBS system, with Andy Beyer as the lead presenter, and again using the Learning Center's Hogge in the Ed McMahon role. The talk was ok, but what I came away with was how well Hogge came across in a Summit of big names. Not taking anything from Eric, a good guy I know pretty well from Louisville, but he is a "real-world" teacher and some of the name guys are on Fantasy Island. Good job, Eric.

Mike Bender loves flat backswings as much as Hardy, and his talk threw physics around like his method was approved by Aaron Zick, but I doubt this would be the case. To me, as well as several others, it all sounded like reprocessed 1990 MORAD. He even confused MORAD terms with TGM terms, but so what. The real problem with Hardy and Bender's talks was the lack of having a fact checker or two to raise the red flag at the appropriate times. Unfortunately, he and Hardy's good ideas are floating around in the bowl with too much B.S.

The PGA is in the process of hiring a replacement for former Director of Instruction Rick Martino, and they better pick well. This Summit will high on their list of projects to fix, and it needs lots of fixing.

One more "Summit" with little debate, no interaction, and same-old presenters, and it will rest on the scrap heap of good ideas gone bad.

Even grading on the lenient curve of previous summits, it was no better than a C-


i thought tomasi was taking over for martino? ...thanks for the review...happy birthday, creeping toward the half century mark :)
 
Harry Toscano

Bruce,
Good to see you are still posting. You have a knack for great striking as well but how good was Harry! He totally outstruck the best and never received the credit he was due. He played the tour 13 straight years and never putted a lick. Too bad, could have been one of the best and I am blessed to have been his caddy, student, teacher and teammate. Those were the days before...
My best to you Bruce,
Matt Kluck
P.S. Mr. Krause significantly changed a students behavior.
 
Terrible. Sounds like they have no choice but to wake up and get up to speed. This is a good thing for those in the know.

As far as I can see they can only keep selling mediocre stuff for so long before the good teachers take over.

It is spreading, yes?

I hope I can play like that when I'm 96.

George Hibbard thrown a bone? He rarely gets thrown anything it would seem. (but insults his way)

Giant Terradactyl egg??

Mr. Miyagi!
 
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sorry I missed the summit, mainly because I missed the Manzella update on the L.S.U. football program
I understand at the next summit Manz will speak on the release points of Manning and Farve, as well as cover the much debated topic of "fair catch or no fair catch"

it's ashame that the PGA (pretty, god darn, average) has taken the spark out of these, from what I understand only about 200 US PGA members made the effort to attend
 
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