A change..

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Ringer

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In an effort to avoid any future confrontations and to just simply go into learning mode.. I'm going to avoid any future divulgance of information even if it reguards a part of the book I understand. I'll leave that up to Brian and Yoda.

Instead, I would like to focus my attention to my own swing which has progressed quite well with one particular notion on the forward swing (excuse me.. downswing).. and that is to generate a Right arm sweeping motion by first advancing my right elbow well ahead of my hands and in front of (not behind or to the side of) my right hip.

The evidence is pretty clear when you compare the following images..

impact-rear.jpg
sequence9.jpg


The first picture is of my swing prior to the 12th of October, where as the first day I tried the sweeping motion (October 12th) is the second picture.

For full video of both swings..
http://gzi.mine.nu:65433/golf/myswing.avi <--Face On Old swing
http://gzi.mine.nu:65433/golf/myswing2.avi <--Rear view Old Swing

http://gzi.mine.nu:65433/golf/newswing-rear.avi <-- New swing Rear View
http://gzi.mine.nu:65433/golf/newswing-front.avi <-- New swing Face On

If you spot anything else you would like to comment on, please feel free. I have heard a lot from other boards, but quite frankly, most of it has been geared toward the non-TGM concepts. I would really like to explore further.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Ringer,

Is the 3rd photo at the point of impact or afterward? Finally, what club is this and exactly where was the ball at address - middle of stance, under left pec, under left armpit?

Thanks for posting your swing.
 
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Ringer

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6 iron, and just after seperation by about an inch. My ball position is consistently off my left peck. If you look at the pipe on the ground, the ball was just back from the joint.
 
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MizunoJoe

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A deep right elbow thrust can inhibit the proper down on plane thrust of PP #3 toward the inside of the ball or other aiming point on the plane line. This causes the hands to level out too soon with a disruptive targetward force component.
 
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MizunoJoe

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"...generate a Right arm sweeping motion by first advancing my right elbow well ahead of my hands and in front of (not behind or to the side of) my right hip."

This could deflect the downward, on plane thrust of PP #3, which would make getting to 10-19-C #2 impossible. In other words, you won't be able to pull the club butt first into the inside of the ball.
 
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Ringer

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Hrmmm.. Mizuno.. thank you for the link.

I'm curious what MORE lateral hip movement would do seeing as my hips are WELL ahead of the ball approaching impact.

Since I base so much of what I percieve on the club and my hands, could I instead make it a primary point to focus on making my hands go on a much more vertical plane (down) than the horizontal one they seem to be making? A bit more 1st accumulator to start the swing?

And one last thing, this elbow movement I'm describing is a much more UNDER THE PLANE sense to me which actually bring the club in on a semi-flatter plane. Difficult to explain, but there is much less AROUND MY BODY feel, and more of a drop and extend feel. When that right elbow gets INTO my hip, then I have no choice but to whip the hands around and break off the lag early while hoping my 4th Accumulator has enough force to propel the golf ball. Emphasis on my pivot has always been a key distance factor for me in the past. Now with this right elbow thrust, I'm getting much better compression.. however I have seen a sugnificant drop in distance.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Ringer,

I would argue that your hips aren't well ahead, even though it may feel that way. Look at the vertical line in the Couples swing. By impact, BOTH hips are on the target side of the line. If you get your right hip sufficiently moved to the left by the time your hands get to the right hip, then you won't have the need to "whip your hands around", nor the need to force your elbow to keep the hands ahead. And, you will save accumulator #2 for a later and more powerful release, which will restore that lost distance. In the Couples clip, left click on "view" and stop the clip when the hands just reach his right hip.

Another point in photo #3, is that your hands "bottom out" too soon on the downswing(green dots) and are actually going upward at low point, below the left shoulder, rather than being at their low point. But you're in good company - I recall holen1 posting that Homer claimed even some tour players did this.
 
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Ringer

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Ringer,

I would argue that your hips aren't well ahead, even though it may feel that way. Look at the vertical line in the Couples swing. By impact, BOTH hips are on the target side of the line. If you get your right hip sufficiently moved to the left by the time your hands get to the right hip, then you won't have the need to "whip your hands around", nor the need to force your elbow to keep the hands ahead. And, you will save accumulator #2 for a later and more powerful release, which will restore that lost distance. In the Couples clip, left click on "view" and stop the clip when the hands just reach his right hip.

Another point in photo #3, is that your hands "bottom out" too soon on the downswing(green dots) and are actually going upward at low point, below the left shoulder, rather than being at their low point. But you're in good company - I recall holen1 posting that Homer claimed even some tour players did this.
Click to expand...

So the right hip should be in front of the ball at impact? heh. That's a strech even for my flexibility. I don't think Couples right hip is ahead of the ball either... I'm looking through Redgoat's pro swings section and don't see anyone with a right hip ahead.

What I do see is a lot more clearance of the right elbow and right hip. If anything, I may just be crowding myself too much cause I'm too close to the ball.
 
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Ringer

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quote:Originally posted by densikat

For interests sake, how did you hit that one?
Click to expand...
I hit it flush and pretty straight. Had a slight draw of about 2 yards and went about 180 yards with a 6 iron.
 
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densikat

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Just checked out the down the line video. Looks pretty good, I personally wouldnt worry about the hip stuff. Just work on right forearm tracing the plane line. Look at the frame before impact. If you drew a line through the right forearm it would not be pointing at the plane line, rather well outside it. If you could get that pointing at the plane line at the same point, the hands would be coming in quite a bit lower, with less need to downcock the wrists to get back to the ball. Checkout Davis on frame 5 here: http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/81492 . Draw a line through his right forearm and it is pointing right at the plane line.
 
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Ringer

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quote:Originally posted by densikat

Just checked out the down the line video. Looks pretty good, I personally wouldnt worry about the hip stuff. Just work on right forearm tracing the plane line. Look at the frame before impact. If you drew a line through the right forearm it would not be pointing at the plane line, rather well outside it. If you could get that pointing at the plane line at the same point, the hands would be coming in quite a bit lower, with less need to downcock the wrists to get back to the ball. Checkout Davis on frame 5 here: http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/81492 . Draw a line through his right forearm and it is pointing right at the plane line.
Click to expand...

That right forarm trace is what I was trying to make happen through my right elbow position. If you compare the old swing to the new one, the right forearm is quite different. In the newer swing, I think it is much closer to tracing the plane line than in the old swing. But as Homer said in 7-3, "So, Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements of Three Dimensions Impact.."
 
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densikat

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Okay cool. Just check out the difference between you and Davis in the delivery positions though. That is how far you need to get that right forearm down. The manipulations you have to make at the moment are a power and accuracy leak. Like I said though, still pretty darn good. Unless the pivot is interfering with the arms, it is a reasonably simple thing to do. The flashlight drill mentioned in another thread helps. Yoda's use of dowels are also very handy when accomplishing this.
 
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