Advice on lesson-taking
- Thread starter Bigwill
- Start date
- Status
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Tell me a little about the teacher's background.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Honestly, try with whole hearted sincerity to do whatever it is that he/she wants you to do.
If you can't hit the ball (like you've always wanted) at least ONCE in an hour lesson doing what they want, find someone else.
Just my opinion.
If you can't hit the ball (like you've always wanted) at least ONCE in an hour lesson doing what they want, find someone else.
Just my opinion.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
That might be the best post of all time on this subject.
Here's a write-up from his website:
"Dave is generally regarded as one of Michigan's outstanding professionals. The recipient of the Michigan PGA's 2006 Golf Professional of the Year award, Dave was previously honored by the Michigan PGA as 2000 and 2004 Teacher of the year and 1990 Golf Professional of the Year. Dave has over 25 years of experience instructing players of all levels. In 2003, Golf Digest ranked Dave #2 in its list of top instructors in Michigan. Golf Range Magazine has included Dave in its Top 50 Instructors in America for the past three years. A Class A PGA member since 1981, he is also very highly regarded as a competitive player having won two Northern Michigan PGA Chapter Championships, two Chapter Player of the Year Awards and three Michigan PGA Pro-Pro Championships. The insight he has gained through his many years of teaching experience along with his competitive background has given Dave a very practical approach to golf improvement."
I've watched him give lessons, and he really helped my father's game, without a lot of position-type instruction. The line about the practical approach is dead on; that is one of the things that attracted me to him (along with the location, which is 15-20 minutes away). He's not into making you look a certain way. My dad's swing is not pretty. But he'll fairway/green you to death, with above average distance, even though he started playing in his 40's and has a bad back. Instead of trying to rebuild my dad's swing so that it was aesthetically pleasing, he fixed one thing that straightened out his ball flight. As I've said before, I'm not built like you're average golfer, so I don't want a teacher who's only concern is to try to make my swing look a certain way. I want a teacher whose focus is to improve my ability to flight the ball.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I would video the lesson, watch it a bunch, do as he says and report back here.
I would suggest that immediately after the lesson, unless you can do it during the lesson without creating a problem. Write down the drills (steps) and reason for them if he gives you some. Write down the changes and why.
Video of it would be ideal.
I have seen too many take lessons, have good results only to see them a week or two later trying to remember what it was they did and why.
Give the guy your best.
Hopefully you will find a good match, a good instructor.
Video of it would be ideal.
I have seen too many take lessons, have good results only to see them a week or two later trying to remember what it was they did and why.
Give the guy your best.
Hopefully you will find a good match, a good instructor.
shootin4par
New
frustrating thing about this forum is that sometimes we can discuss instructors and methods and sometimes we cannot, it is a pick and choose.
Here is what I'd say:
What I'd Say
Earl Thomas Conley
Talkin to the mirror
whisperin your name
just like you were here, youd think i was insane
I hold these conversations in the silence of my room
rehearsing all the things id say should i run into you
hows it going might be what id say
you broke my heart you know
or it looks like rain today
or maybe god i missed you since you went away
your lookin well
or go to hell might be what id say
theres times i feel so angry id put my fist right through the wall
then theres times ive come so close to giving you a call
i love you and i hate you all at the same time
i pray that you'll come back to me before i lose my mind
hows it going might be what id say
you broke my heart you know
or it looks like rain today
or maybe god i missed you since you went away
your lookin well
or go to hell might be what id say
Guess you'll have to wait until that day
to find out what i'd say
God i missed you since you went away
your looking well
or go to hell
might be what id say
What I'd Say
Earl Thomas Conley
Talkin to the mirror
whisperin your name
just like you were here, youd think i was insane
I hold these conversations in the silence of my room
rehearsing all the things id say should i run into you
hows it going might be what id say
you broke my heart you know
or it looks like rain today
or maybe god i missed you since you went away
your lookin well
or go to hell might be what id say
theres times i feel so angry id put my fist right through the wall
then theres times ive come so close to giving you a call
i love you and i hate you all at the same time
i pray that you'll come back to me before i lose my mind
hows it going might be what id say
you broke my heart you know
or it looks like rain today
or maybe god i missed you since you went away
your lookin well
or go to hell might be what id say
Guess you'll have to wait until that day
to find out what i'd say
God i missed you since you went away
your looking well
or go to hell
might be what id say
Thanks for the replies. Right now, I'm all about getting better. I'm hoping that I can put this present to good use. For some people, golf is only about the company you keep, the solitude, the atmosphere. I do, too. But in order to keep playing this game, I really need to start playing well. I figure having a trained set of eyes on my swing is the place to start.
BTW, what's up with the rhyme time on this board lately, LOL!
BTW, what's up with the rhyme time on this board lately, LOL!
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Bigwill's post does not violate the rules.
He simply asked how to go about taking a lesson. Brian asked him to post about the instructor. Bigwill also kept the person's last name out of the post. Bigwill was also not promoting him by telling everyone to go see him.
what goes against the rules is people who come here and continually to PUBLICLY promote other methods and teachers for FINANCIAL GAIN.
Every moderator at this site has no problem debating other teaching methods or even analyzing them. Brian has done audio answers on Mike Austin as well as a full review of Jim Hardy whose seminar he attended (that i'm sure wasn't free).
Anyone can ask/post about any teacher/method they want and we will try and show what we like/dislike about them and what we think will work/not work about them.
What won't be tolerated is the public promotion for financial gain of other teachers unless they are a Manzella Academy Instructor or someone on Brian's "approved list" which most people would know that frequent this forum.
shootin4par
New
There have been people on here who try and discuss other methods who had NO financial ties whatsoever . The amount of paranoia is pretty big. Basically how I see it is if it is bashing against an instructor it will almost always stay, but if it is discussion, it will be pick and choose. Dont get me wrong, brian is a very nice person, but things here have changed and not all of them for the better. Yes is stinks that people intentionally try to disrupt this site, but now anyone who questions anything will be run out quick.
those are MY thoughts and how I see it, others may see differently
IMO the moderators and owner here have a difficult task at hand in maintaining a board that is focused on their goals and keeping the topics at the top level vs going into the sewer.
I don't see it as paranoia, but more as how do you tell who are the real posters and the posters intent of just mixing things up.
This is not unique to this board. With posters cross posting on various forums and then for whatever reason bring back those comments to the other forums that appears most of the time to me anyway as just stirring the pot. They are not really trying to forward the foeum goals of the various forum owners who at their own expense provide these forums for our benefit. One could argue they get benefit in return but to do that they need to moderate IMO else it may reflect negatively on them.
I think the majority of moderators do a good job IMO.
Thanks
I don't see it as paranoia, but more as how do you tell who are the real posters and the posters intent of just mixing things up.
This is not unique to this board. With posters cross posting on various forums and then for whatever reason bring back those comments to the other forums that appears most of the time to me anyway as just stirring the pot. They are not really trying to forward the foeum goals of the various forum owners who at their own expense provide these forums for our benefit. One could argue they get benefit in return but to do that they need to moderate IMO else it may reflect negatively on them.
I think the majority of moderators do a good job IMO.
Thanks
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Like who?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Marty,
You really don't know how right you are.
The amount of effort some folks are willing to put in to disrupt this site is staggering.
pretty long read ahead
Had the lesson today. I warmed up for about 20 minutes (under heaters), so I was good and loose. Of course, he asked me about my game:
-never broke 100, shot in the mid 40's for nine on several occasions
-most misses are straight pulls or pushes with little sidespin
-have problems with hitting the ball fat
-driver is my best club
From that point, he spoke for 10 minutes or so about conceptual ideas related to swing path, particularly as it relates to making contact with the driver and irons. Then he asked me to hit some balls, which were a variety of fats and pushes, until the last ball or two went fairly straight with decent contact. When we went to the video, the problem was evident. I have a very upright backswing. From down the line, with an 8 iron, my left arm was nearly vertial at the top of the swing (think Scott Hoch, only about 6'3" inches tall and 240 pounds heavier). So while my lower body maintained its position fairly well, my upper body got pulled toward the target by the weight of my arms and the club. This put me ahead of the ball, and made me have to "back up" with my upper body through impact, while still managing to get onto my left side. I'm strong enough to still get above average distance, but obviously my consistency is nonexistant.
The first thing he did was to tell me the reasons why this was sub-optimal. Mainly, I couldn't get any real power behind the ball, unless I WAS behind it. So I needed maintain the axis tilt I had 3/4 of the way into the swing (which was pretty good). So I just did some turning, making sure to maintain my lateral tilt. Then, he had me imagine playing teeball. With that image, I took a couple of swings a couple of feet above the ground, then one from address. The differences on video were night and day. My arms were a lot lower, and maintained my tilt. From there, he had me hitting smooth-tempo half-shots with an 8 iron to get the feel for the move. Within a few balls, I was hitting the ball with a decent amount of draw. Of course, with the shallower swing, I was swinging more in to out than normal. So once I had the move down, he showed me how to swing left, which straightend the ball flight, and helped to prevent flipping. Then he showed me how to work the ball with that little swing. By the end of the lesson, the ball was going where I wanted it to, and I was able to move the ball when I wanted to.
Afterwards, I got about 80 balls, and proceeded to work on what he showed me. I mostly hit those half shots, with the same results. Of course, I hit some full shots, just to see. The flight on the good shots was very high, but still got good distance (8 irons @ 160 or so for the most part, some longer, some shorter), considering temps in the 40's. The thing that influenced me the most was the axis tilt, or rather, the intent to maintain it through the transition. That intent influenced my setup greatly. I developed more axis tilt at address in order to facilitate it during the swing, without consciously doing so. The additional axis tilt also forced me to move my ball position forward. This combination had me feeling so far behind the ball, especially at the top, that I just knew I'd never contact the ball. But the results didn't lie. The plan for the rest of the winter is "baby steps". My intent is to slowly integrate this change so that it is as consistent in a normal full swing as it is in that little half swing (which, with that 8 iron, turns out to be an awesome 110 yard pitchshot
). This lesson was big for me, in that I'm a visual and tactile learner. Having someone watch me make swings and swing changes, as well as confirming the new feels, was a big help.
Thanks for the advice on the lesson taking. I applied everything I could during the lesson, and I think it helped a lot.
Had the lesson today. I warmed up for about 20 minutes (under heaters), so I was good and loose. Of course, he asked me about my game:
-never broke 100, shot in the mid 40's for nine on several occasions
-most misses are straight pulls or pushes with little sidespin
-have problems with hitting the ball fat
-driver is my best club
From that point, he spoke for 10 minutes or so about conceptual ideas related to swing path, particularly as it relates to making contact with the driver and irons. Then he asked me to hit some balls, which were a variety of fats and pushes, until the last ball or two went fairly straight with decent contact. When we went to the video, the problem was evident. I have a very upright backswing. From down the line, with an 8 iron, my left arm was nearly vertial at the top of the swing (think Scott Hoch, only about 6'3" inches tall and 240 pounds heavier). So while my lower body maintained its position fairly well, my upper body got pulled toward the target by the weight of my arms and the club. This put me ahead of the ball, and made me have to "back up" with my upper body through impact, while still managing to get onto my left side. I'm strong enough to still get above average distance, but obviously my consistency is nonexistant.
The first thing he did was to tell me the reasons why this was sub-optimal. Mainly, I couldn't get any real power behind the ball, unless I WAS behind it. So I needed maintain the axis tilt I had 3/4 of the way into the swing (which was pretty good). So I just did some turning, making sure to maintain my lateral tilt. Then, he had me imagine playing teeball. With that image, I took a couple of swings a couple of feet above the ground, then one from address. The differences on video were night and day. My arms were a lot lower, and maintained my tilt. From there, he had me hitting smooth-tempo half-shots with an 8 iron to get the feel for the move. Within a few balls, I was hitting the ball with a decent amount of draw. Of course, with the shallower swing, I was swinging more in to out than normal. So once I had the move down, he showed me how to swing left, which straightend the ball flight, and helped to prevent flipping. Then he showed me how to work the ball with that little swing. By the end of the lesson, the ball was going where I wanted it to, and I was able to move the ball when I wanted to.
Afterwards, I got about 80 balls, and proceeded to work on what he showed me. I mostly hit those half shots, with the same results. Of course, I hit some full shots, just to see. The flight on the good shots was very high, but still got good distance (8 irons @ 160 or so for the most part, some longer, some shorter), considering temps in the 40's. The thing that influenced me the most was the axis tilt, or rather, the intent to maintain it through the transition. That intent influenced my setup greatly. I developed more axis tilt at address in order to facilitate it during the swing, without consciously doing so. The additional axis tilt also forced me to move my ball position forward. This combination had me feeling so far behind the ball, especially at the top, that I just knew I'd never contact the ball. But the results didn't lie. The plan for the rest of the winter is "baby steps". My intent is to slowly integrate this change so that it is as consistent in a normal full swing as it is in that little half swing (which, with that 8 iron, turns out to be an awesome 110 yard pitchshot
). This lesson was big for me, in that I'm a visual and tactile learner. Having someone watch me make swings and swing changes, as well as confirming the new feels, was a big help. Thanks for the advice on the lesson taking. I applied everything I could during the lesson, and I think it helped a lot.
By the way, I do want to acknowledge that some of the things in the previous post are familiar to those who post on these forums. He didn't reinvent the wheel for me; he helped me apply it. I just have a much better time having someone physically show me the right way, then reading or hearing it. I don't want to take anything away from anyone. He was very good. So are some of the instructors of the forums I frequent.
birdie_man
New
That is the digger's specialty.
- Status