any ideas

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I taped my swing today, and here is what I noticed
3/4 of the way to the top seems fine
then from there to just short of parallel, still in the back swing, three things happen
one I start to loose my spine angle a little
two I start to lift up a little, and three I start to move forward with my whole body, hips, shoulders, head, etc... then i shift my head over top of the ball, it moves 3 or so inches past where it was at address. My hips and upper body finish out past my left foot, definitely not a solid left side like hogan, tiger, snead, etc...... where you could draw a straight line from there front foot up there leg I am out past it by a few inches. My forward elbow does not fold untill late but I feel as if this is becase of what happened before hand. at impact I also jump up. My grip is very much like hogans, but the left hand may be a little stronger. If this is not enough information just let me know. I do this on practice siwngs as welll the only difference seems to be my practice swings are better at holding lag, which is understandable since I am not hitting a ball.
thanks in advance
 
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S4P: any body motion that you know is inappropriate can be retrained with mirror work. I find myself that moving off the ball is MORE COMMONLY because of pushing up with my knees. But sometimes it is my back rising. Regardless, in front of a mirror (or shadow on the ground) I CAN SEE when I am doing it, and my reflection or shadow is a marker that enables me to control the inappropriate part.

IF your swing truly is a spinning motion around the axis of C-7 in your back between your shoulders, THAT will not rise, but your head will appear to move to the right in the BS and to the left in the DS because it DOES swivel around the C-7 center.

HIPS get driven by legs, so your feet need to be positioned close enough with an open enough left toe SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO TURN LEFT TO PULL THE TORSO CONTINUOUSLY UNTIL AFTER the ball is gone. This is prolly more controlled by knees than you may be aware, and of which you WILL become aware with mirror work without a club in hand.

LAG is accomplished by NOT PUSHING IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER against the side of the shaft. The only force in a swinging procedure (I am not a hitter nor do I advise using the shaft as a spanking stick for that purpose) is lengthwise (centripetal), or actually, by pulling the grip cap and shaft tangent along the arc of the swinging left hand. The right arm is for support as the forces build but not for motion itself. What some experience as MOVEMENT CAUSED by right arm exertion may well turn out to be SUPPORTING FORCE to assist the LEFT hand to continue down and forward.

Anyway, inappropriate body motion does need to be eliminated. Is your swing thought DOWN to the ground? or up to the target? - subtle stuff like images have a huge influence on what we DO during our blackout...

Good luck.
 
thanks PI
I was doing some mirror work and noticed that I slide my hips out over and past my left foot, which video also shows this. then I worked with screwing the left heel into the ground and that seemed to brace up the left side and not let the hips go out past the foot, keeps the head back but that is only mirrorr work. thoughts on this "feeling"? In my swing I dont know that I feel DOWN into my left leg as much as I feel over top of it. I do realieze, through watching videos and looking at pictures, the head movement of most pros, it shifts off the ball a little, then back to original position or close to it, then tilts back and has a look of behind the ball. I really want to get my swing more simplified, but with my head moving as much as it does in the video, and I have seen this in video a lot over my years of playing, I have issues that must be taken care of.
 
well I did some range work today and I worked on hitting against a solid left side, posting the left leg. on video It cut down my head movement by half. I was hitting 8 irons pure but the driver was not. It takes time to implement something like this so I will be working on it, but direction control was very promising with the 8 iron. My head also did not seem to lift up in the back swing as before, not sure why that changed but it did
 
I am just as guilty of moving up off the ball in the backswing, s4p, so it is not something that just goes away for ever at all.

Whenever I do watch myself in a reflection window or mirror it is obvious and it stops itself almost automatically. But over a ball it rears its ugly head.

When mishits occur with an otherwise decent swing, I always look at pre-swing measurement adjustments so that impact is in the center of the clubhead. THAT is "job one..."
 

rundmc

Banned
Perfect Impact said:
S4P: any body motion that you know is inappropriate can be retrained with mirror work. I find myself that moving off the ball is MORE COMMONLY because of pushing up with my knees. But sometimes it is my back rising. Regardless, in front of a mirror (or shadow on the ground) I CAN SEE when I am doing it, and my reflection or shadow is a marker that enables me to control the inappropriate part.

IF your swing truly is a spinning motion around the axis of C-7 in your back between your shoulders, THAT will not rise, but your head will appear to move to the right in the BS and to the left in the DS because it DOES swivel around the C-7 center.

HIPS get driven by legs, so your feet need to be positioned close enough with an open enough left toe SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO TURN LEFT TO PULL THE TORSO CONTINUOUSLY UNTIL AFTER the ball is gone. This is prolly more controlled by knees than you may be aware, and of which you WILL become aware with mirror work without a club in hand.

LAG is accomplished by NOT PUSHING IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER against the side of the shaft. The only force in a swinging procedure (I am not a hitter nor do I advise using the shaft as a spanking stick for that purpose) is lengthwise (centripetal), or actually, by pulling the grip cap and shaft tangent along the arc of the swinging left hand. The right arm is for support as the forces build but not for motion itself. What some experience as MOVEMENT CAUSED by right arm exertion may well turn out to be SUPPORTING FORCE to assist the LEFT hand to continue down and forward.

Anyway, inappropriate body motion does need to be eliminated. Is your swing thought DOWN to the ground? or up to the target? - subtle stuff like images have a huge influence on what we DO during our blackout...

Good luck.

Nice post!
 
gettting that left leg posted is very different then what I have done up to this point. Up untill now I have kind of slid past the post and once you slide outside of it, the left side seems to not be so solid. This will take some work but I think it is the right direction. I am just having a hard time getting that weight DOWN into that front heel. any drills good for this? I was hitting with a shaft outside of my left foot today at the range and making sure I did not slide into the shaft but turned before it. Things looked a lot different on tape but I lacked compression. I think that was because before I would slide past the ball and leave my arms behind, so the left arm was more on the chest and more solid at impact, although I know it was an incorrect movement.
 
Too much lower body consciousness....? Could be your thoughts are "mechanics" in place of just "swinging your arms" - during which your weight naturally - not deliberately so much as naturally! - just falls to the left foot AS you swing your arms to the left.

Compression is a result of INTENTION TO COMPRESS, and just like anything else we do routinely without thinking of the mechanics of our bodies, our brains just simply DO in fulfillment of the intention.

If your feet are close together while you hit PW shots without any concern for FEELING your left post or your left heel, you will probably naturally fall into an excellent swing. I say "fall into" because many of us have perfectly good swing motions but we retain suspicion or fear that "we aren't doing it right." I'd bet an impact bag to smash into without any mechanical considerations might be instructive.

I wish I could see what you are doing...but my gut tells me it is "overthinking."
 
Perfect Impact said:
LAG is accomplished by NOT PUSHING IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER against the side of the shaft. The only force in a swinging procedure (I am not a hitter nor do I advise using the shaft as a spanking stick for that purpose) is lengthwise (centripetal), or actually, by pulling the grip cap and shaft tangent along the arc of the swinging left hand.

PI - what do you suggest generates this longitudanal pulling force? Hands/arms or pivot? Or is it maybe pivot while being monitored (and directed) through hands/arms?
 
Mick: picture a bicycle wheel on a horizontal axis--so that the wheel can rotate on a vertical plane.

Attach a golf club to the rim of the wheel tangent to its surface using some tape: so that as the wheel would rotate, the grip cap would move in a circle and would drag the club lengthwise as it did so. Picture the tire with the club parallel to the ground like it would be at the top of a golfer's backswing: the grip cap end pointing exactly the opposite direction of the target.

Suppose the left shoulder was the location of the axle of the wheel and the left arm was a radius or spoke of that wheel.

Clearly you can see how when the wheel is turned in the direction that pulls the grip cap, it resembles the action of a downswing, by moving the cap tangent to the surface of the tire--in an arc.

NOW, if the wheel gets moved very FAST, in a short time the throw-out force would become so strong it would tearn the tape right off and the club would become disengaged.

So lets attach it lightly with tape BUT with a hook and eye coming out OF the grip cap attached to the tire and wheel with wire so that it could NOT get disengaged. Spinning the wheel would pull the grip cap end until velocity built up enough to tear the tape BUT THE GRIP CAP END WOULD STILL CONTINUE TO MOVE - which from the golfer's point of reference, would be clockwise!

In golfswing talk and action, then, the left arm is moving the grip cap: BUT THE LEFT ARM ITSELF IS BEING PULLED AROUND by PIVOT action. Not horizontal action of the shoulders but VERTICAL motion because the left hip when it moves to the left without the head moving left at the same time CAUSES THE RIGHT SHOULDER TO GO DOWN AND THE LEFT SHOULDER TO RISE. Since the center doesn't move the left arm MUST GET PULLED DOWN, and with the left hand holding the shaft tangent to the arc in which the hand moves, it is the same as the wheel spinning and pulling the grip cap lengthwise.

THE PIVOT MOVES THE ARM. THE HAND AT THE END OF THE ARM IS A HOLDER-ONNER. THE SHAFT AND HEAD OF THE CLUB AT SOME POINT LATER IN THE SWING GETS THROWN BY OUTWARD MOMENTUM to where the clubhead "catches up." (A right hand on the club also gets moved by the pivot...)

Some people "watch the hands move while they exert their pivot to cause the arm to get thrown." This they call "pivot controlled hands." Other people are of the athletic type, or for the moment prefer to feel, that WHEN THEY MOVE THE HANDS IN THIS ARC THAT THE PIVOT ACTS TO SUPPORT THEM. It is a bit like "slide that cart over here, will you," where you FEEL THE CART WITH YOUR HANDS AND PUSH WITH YOUR HANDS, yet obviously your feet and shoulders are firm in support to allow it. You are exerting wrists, triceps, hamstrings... This kind of "use your hands and let the body REACT TO SUPPORT them" is called "hands controlled pivot."

Whether a given person today or tomorrow should choose to direct HIS OWN swing either one way or the other is, IMO, a personal preference, not a different procedure as such.

For example in another illustration, I can "move my hips, hence my torso, hence my arms, hence my hands and the club" by CONSCIOUSLY MOVING MY KNEES AND LEFT HIP and, with everything held firm in my body so that everything DOES get moved, everything attached DOES get moved by my legs. OR I might simply swing MY SHOULDERS -- hard and fast -- and in THAT process after the fact in replay I WOULD SEE -- WOWEE - MY HIPS AND KNEES MOVED and I wasn't even thinking about THEM - but they did what they needed to do to make my good swing possible.

The pitfall with a pivot-controlled hands swing is that we tend to get disjointed a bit like an erector-set device with the nuts not yet tightened. The hands and club "get stuck behind us." The pitfall with a hands controlled pivot is that we may NOT use enough body motion or weight shift to make a geometrically sound motion - and go over the top or leave out some of the resources available from our legs to power the swing. IF the handscontrolledpivot DOES TRULY CONTROL the direction the hands move - if the golfer REALLY DOES MOVE his hands correctly downplane and down the line as they need to be moved, the pivot WILL have to shift the weight, since it isn't possible TO move the arms correctly unless the lower body accommodates itself to the path the arms need to follow.

OK, that's the long version. The short answer to your query is "it's optional." Try both: whatever works. And Tuesday it might be different.

So I'd find the one that seems to work the best AND THEN USE THAT TO PLAY GOLF WITH AND STOP TINKERING.
 
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shootin4par said:
well I did some range work today and I worked on hitting against a solid left side, posting the left leg. on video It cut down my head movement by half. I was hitting 8 irons pure but the driver was not. It takes time to implement something like this so I will be working on it, but direction control was very promising with the 8 iron. My head also did not seem to lift up in the back swing as before, not sure why that changed but it did
I think the driver is the hardest, because the legs are farthest apart. My latest key is that the hands and arms can "float" at the top of the backswing for awhile. Yesterday I realized I was rushing the downswing, since I had to push it through without the post up that makes it happen automatically. Again, try a sidearm throw, and realize how your arm just kind of waits at the top while the legs shift. It's easier to do if you have the club a little more upright in the backswing, ala Ernie.
 
Perfect Impact said:
Mick: picture a bicycle wheel on a horizontal axis--so that the wheel can rotate on a vertical plane........etc

Thanks, some helpful imagery there.
NB Don't you just love tinkering though???:D
 
I tried turning my front foot in about 30 degrees and when working on practice swings on tape my head movement was just about perfect. it moved off the ball a little, then moved back to address and stayed down through the swing. Why would thks change it? but I know I would probably rip my leg out of the socket if I swung like this when I played.
 
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