Are eyes over the ball REALLY that important in putting?

[Ringer]

I honestly don't think so. In fact I have noticed that the majority of golfer who have their eyes over the ball are much more likely to re-route the club in their backswing. Instead of a nice arc to their stroke it goes back outside, and usually comes back accross their body causing a bit of sidespin.

You stand to the side of the ball with every other club. As far as I'm concerned you MUST be a bit further away to make that putter travel in an arc. As long as the putterface is aimed along the line you want to start the ball on. Then let gravity and momentum handle the rest.

 

[Michael Jacobs]

eyes on inside quadrant - geometry is same for all strokes -- putt to drive

 

[Steve Khatib]

Eyes over the ball guarantees nothing!

eyes on inside quadrant - geometry is same for all strokes -- putt to drive

Agreed Michael, eyes over the ball is like keep your head down or keep your left arm straight.

I will add 'Mind in your hands' and 'Pivot does all of the work' to eyes on the inside aft quadrant.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Sometimes i make more putts with my eyes closed once i setup.

I prefer just INSIDE the ball. A great way to see where your eyes are is to put a ball in the middle of a CD or old DVD and look for your eyes refletion.

 

[hiroshiro]

I honestly don't think so. In fact I have noticed that the majority of golfer who have their eyes over the ball are much more likely to re-route the club in their backswing. Instead of a nice arc to their stroke it goes back outside, and usually comes back accross their body causing a bit of sidespin.

You stand to the side of the ball with every other club. As far as I'm concerned you MUST be a bit further away to make that putter travel in an arc. As long as the putterface is aimed along the line you want to start the ball on. Then let gravity and momentum handle the rest.

For consistent aim (if you do not use a line on the ball to aim with), eyes over the ball apparently results in the most consistency, that is, fewer required compensations. See Pelz's Putting Bible for a good explanantion why.

However, if one uses a line on the ball to establish the initial line, then eye position is rendered largely moot.

 

[Damon Lucas]

I believe that there should be a straight gaze(eyes in middle of sockets looking straight out, not down cheeks, or up the forehead, or to the sides!!!!).

With a straight gaze, you can be either 'eyes over the ball' or 'eyes inside the line' depending on your head position and preferred stroke pattern.

I do not agree with eyes at the inside aft quadrant for putting unless you desire an open clubface and the necessitating compensations. If you 'have' to putt on an arc(apart from it being one of putting lore's great buzzwords and theories that hasn't been subjected to a heck of a lot of scientific scrutiny, I don't see why one would want to maximise the curvature in their 'arc'), I personally wouldn't focus on the ball at all with that kind of stroke.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Putting on an arc really just means allowing the sweet spot of the club to open and close slightly.

However that sweetspot will always point at the plane line. That is one thing that is absolutely mandatory in my putting.

I don't care how you aim, how you setup, your grip, WHATEVER. Just make sure you draw that straight plane line and develop some kind of clubface control and you'll start the ball on your line.

 

[puttmad]

...

However, if one uses a line on the ball to establish the initial line, then eye position is rendered largely moot.

I'm assuming the line on the ball you are talking about is around the cicumference running from 3-o-clock to 9-o-clock...

If that is what you mean, how do you set your putter up correctly to that line when you address the ball, because if you view that line from anywhere other than directly above it will appear bent as it goes over the top of the ball, rather than a staright line as when viewed from directly above?..
So how do you address your club correctly to a bent line?...

 

[Ringer]

Eyes over the ball for aiming?

Who is aiming DURRING the stroke?

 

[Damon Lucas]

Eyes over the ball for aiming?

Who is aiming DURRING the stroke?

Hopefully no-one!
But preparing your body, and brain for good movement, there are advantages to 'eyes over + straight gaze'

 

[Robbohank]

Cameron

I recall reading an article that quoted Scotty Cameron as saying the ideal head position was ball under your eyebrows. I can't remember his reasoning, but I suspect he's done plenty of measurements of the best putters in the world.

Robbo

 

[Damon Lucas]

I recall reading an article that quoted Scotty Cameron as saying the ideal head position was ball under your eyebrows. I can't remember his reasoning, but I suspect he's done plenty of measurements of the best putters in the world.

Robbo

For anybody who has inside access as to why this might be a 'belief', please explain?

My take is that this is likely a 'model golf' like assertion in that you take a sample of the best players in the world, average out the numbers, and produce something that sounds good(17 inches anyone???) which also supports his predominantly toe-flow putter designs!!!!

Please disprove me, PLEASE?

 

[Ringer]

Hopefully no-one!
But preparing your body, and brain for good movement, there are advantages to 'eyes over + straight gaze'

Tell me.. what are the advantages to the "eyes over" DURING the stroke?

 

[Michael Jacobs]

A response to an earlier post in this thread as to easier aim with eyes over, key to aiming is address routine at standard address - having the shaft at what appears to be a right angle --- eyes on inside quad.... mind in hands --- lag pressure gets all attention for distance --- set the wedges on the back stroke - impact hands - aim them - vertical hinging with a "Horizontal Motion"

 

[otto6457]

Now this may be blasphemy......but I have worked with Pat O'Brian on my putting stroke a few times. He explained to me that I aim better with my eyes inside of the line for two reasons. I am very left eye dominate (right handed), and when I aim, I move my head up to where my eyes are more level to the ground. He said that if I had been a person that aimed with my eyes stacked on top of each other (where I would just pivot my head around my neck) I would probably aim better with my eyes directly over the ball.

So, it seems there are a thousand ways to putt and the only right one is the one that let's you put the first putt in the hole more often.

 

[birdie_man]

For anybody who has inside access as to why this might be a 'belief', please explain?

My take is that this is likely a 'model golf' like assertion in that you take a sample of the best players in the world, average out the numbers, and produce something that sounds good(17 inches anyone???) which also supports his predominantly toe-flow putter designs!!!!

Please disprove me, PLEASE?

I agree man....that's exactly what came to my mind- sound like it goes along with a "model stroke" that he likes or some kind of average or other very semi-logical logic. (if u know what I mean)

 

[birdie_man]

Tell me.. what are the advantages to the "eyes over" DURING the stroke?

I think it mostly depends on what type of stroke you use.

You have to fit the setup to the stroke.

One advantage that comes directly to mind tho is better aim. (with eyes directly over the line)

So, it seems there are a thousand ways to putt and the only right one is the one that let's you put the first putt in the hole more often.

I agree man.

I wouldn't call myself an expert but with all the different styles out there....I mean....u see people ranking strokes with relation to some kind of ideal and this and that.....and pickin em apart......and that's one thing...

.....cause you have to have some kind of adherence to principle....and surely you can apply a lot of it to a lot of people....

....but at the end of the day I'll take my ball in the hole when I'm playing golf and not thinking about golf thank you a bunch. It's the "final word" no doubt about it. Results.

I mean....Bobby Locke was pretty "unorthodox" from what I understand.....but man....from the accounts of all these old timer pros......he'd take pretty much anyone's money. (or at least give em a hell of a time)

 

[Damon Lucas]

Tell me.. what are the advantages to the "eyes over" DURING the stroke?

Let's assume that you have 'eyes over coupled with a straight gaze'. From there you can better utilize a head turn that has several major points(references even) lined up. Those being the ears(where glasses would rest), the outside corners and inside corners of your eye sockets, the bridge of your nose, AND the eye position in a straight gaze. Turn the head properly - ie not lifting, just pure swivel of the head, and you use these points to trace a straight line.

Here's where it gets a little interesting,
Since there is no conflict between what your eyes are telling you, and what your body's awareness of where your target is, you will be more secure with your aim.

Also, when you turn your head this way, you use the same muscles in the neck(plate) that you will use when you make a stroke with a shoulders dominated stroke, thus aiding your body's awareness of what a straight stroke feels like.

Ringer, this is one way to go about it. For me it eliminates a lot, if not all, of the conflict during the stroke. I feel that the science behind this from a biomechanical, neurophysiological, and logical perspective is untouchable. The reality is there will be others equally adament, and forthright about the validity of their preferences.

Congratulations on your tournament efforts by the way!

 

[Ringer]

Thank you for the kind words.

I'm just still confused about something. It seems to me that all the benefits you're talking about are during the setup. That all comes before the stroke. As for during the stroke you're saying that it give your body awareness of what straight stroke is.. but if a person is concerned with aim (target) then your internal monitoring is completely thrown out in favor of direction and hole.

How can you monitor both the target and the straight plane line? That's like saying you're going to watch the hole while you monitor your hands with your eyes.

 

[Damon Lucas]

All the work IS completed during set up!!

I am getting to the point where I 'go on holiday' during the stroke. Everything is taken care of.

Aim is;
A straight stroke is;
If you turn your head correctly, at the right pace, tempo, timing, and hence your distance control is taken care of.

I don't trace a straight plane line.
One clarification:
When my eyes return to the ball, then all thoughts of aim and everything else are completely resolved. The exact point that I conclude MY aiming process is closer to when I finish turning my head towards my aim point. If I have aimed my set up well, ,my head turn should take my eyes to my exact aiming point.

To paraphrase Brian, execution is dumbed down!