Axis tilt, getting behind the ball

[timwalsh300]

I was hitting balls on the range this morning and watching video of myself, and I made a connection... I discovered that the farther out in front I tried to hit the ball (either by playing it forward OR tilting my upper body back behind the ball during the downswing), the easier it was to achieve club head delay and get to a proper impact position with my left shoulder up the plane and a flat left wrist.

Maybe a better way of putting it is this: The farther out in front I tried to hit the ball, the more impossible it was to release the club head prior to impact. Doing so would make it impossible to hit the ball straight and could only result in a pull-hook (or a whiff?).

I see now that this is what the "divot wall" drill really forces (hitting out in front). This is also seems to be what Brian means by "trying to get as far away from impact as possible." Looking at older video of myself I see that whenever I had good impact hands I also had plenty of axis tilt behind the ball, though I wasn't thinking about it at the time.

Question: Do you think this is also what the "Stack and Tilt" method ultimately tries to accomplish?

Tim

 

[JonWil]

Tim,
How do you do that and not run out right arm? I am curious because it feels natural for me to have the ball quite a bit forward but I can not get to it at low point.

 

[Zztop]

Tim,
How do you do that and not run out right arm? I am curious because it feels natural for me to have the ball quite a bit forward but I can not get to it at low point.

Run up.

 

[timwalsh300]

Ah, well, yes... like anything else I imagine that you don't want to try hitting the ball too far in front. If you already have a good swing this might not be a productive swing-thought.

But in my case, or the case of others who are struggling with flipping and trying to consistently get to a good impact position for the first time, I don't see that as an issue yet. When I look at video of myself flipping, there is NO axis tilt behind the ball.

Tim

 

[timwalsh300]

I was thinking about this again this morning, and I remembered seeing this post from a while back:

As someone similar to you a few years ago, let me caution you about over doing the flat left wrist. Please, please, please pay attention to your pivot. Make sure that action is correct and a lot of times the flip will take care of itself.

In my case I got so focused on the "flat left wrist at impact" and thought if I could just do that then the kingdom of golf would be mine....what I ended up with was a massive upper body dive at the ball. I had a flat-ass left wrist though.

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...-position-flat-left-wrist-etc.html#post142170

I think this gets to the core of what I'm talking about. There are various ways to hit a straight shot, with or without a flat left wrist at impact. Many of these ways are either not very powerful or not very repeatable. But if the pivot is good - proper rotation of the hips and midsection, axis tilt behind the ball - then there is only ONE way to hit a straight shot: with a flat left wrist. And this is both powerful and repeatable.

I think I've fully progressed now through the stages of...

1. Flipping and not knowing that it is bad
2. Understanding that flipping is bad, but not knowing what to do about it
3. Focusing on my hands/wrists in an attempt to stop flipping, oblivious to everything else
4. Realizing that the entire swing is indivisible, and that the manner in which I pivot directly affects what happens to my hands. I've been stumbling around this for a few weeks, but it suddenly seems crystal clear.

Tim

 

[puttmad]

Tim,
How do you do that and not run out right arm? I am curious because it feels natural for me to have the ball quite a bit forward but I can not get to it at low point.

Jon,

You won't run out of right arm if you keep your swing center stable, while compressing your right side (axis tilt) and pivoting....

"Staying" behind it means just that, i.e. not letting your swing center move targetwise on the downswing...it doesn't mean you actually move backwards behind the ball.....