Axis Tilt = pushes??????

[Bill Miracle]

When I don't tilt the axis enough, my ball flight is too low. But I am more accurate. To get it up, I remember to focus on axis tilt. I might be over doing it because I get a push about 15-20* right of the target. This happens 50% of the time. I can't tell if I am getting more or less tilt on the shots that are on target

I'm positive I've cured my alignment problem. Should I take a stronger grip if I am focusing on axis tilt? Would axis tilt cause a potential open club face or am I creating another problem somewhere???

PS...the ball flight is great otherwise and I am crushing the ball. Once the ball takes off, it looks like a after-burner kicks in. Really pretty to see.

PSS...before someone says "just aim more left" I am doing that to compensate but....when I hit a good one, then I am off to the left.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What happens to people when they learn "axis titl" which is really just a by product of getting the right shoulder to go downplane is that there is just a BUNCH more "room" to swing inside/out at the ball.

hips are foward, upper body is back which creates "visually" a lot of room for the golfer to swing way out to right field. So that is what they usually do.

What you need to do is not band-aid the problem by fixing your grip, you need to learn how to incorporate axis tilt (right shoulder going downplane) AND still be on plane with the clubshaft, not trying to swing so far out to right field.

Make sense?

 

[Perfect Impact]

Overdoing axis tilt is one of my recurrent errors. I have continually to make sure I am not broken....

It causes adding loft to the club, it reduces the force of an in-line compression (I always envied people who could hit the ball low until I found out what caused it), and it increases the likelihood of fats.

I don't use the image of right field: I see myself swinging my hands inside the rim of a tire that is positioned to roll on the target line. Of course it tilts back from the ball line to my shoulders.

 

[rundmc]

When I don't tilt the axis enough, my ball flight is too low. But I am more accurate. To get it up, I remember to focus on axis tilt. I might be over doing it because I get a push about 15-20* right of the target. This happens 50% of the time. I can't tell if I am getting more or less tilt on the shots that are on target

I'm positive I've cured my alignment problem. Should I take a stronger grip if I am focusing on axis tilt? Would axis tilt cause a potential open club face or am I creating another problem somewhere???

PS...the ball flight is great otherwise and I am crushing the ball. Once the ball takes off, it looks like a after-burner kicks in. Really pretty to see.

PSS...before someone says "just aim more left" I am doing that to compensate but....when I hit a good one, then I am off to the left.

Dude . . . I'd say if you HAVEN'T had enough Axis Tilt then the ball going right is a GOOD thing. It means that you are probably doing it correctly. You just need to keep doing it. You have probably been HANGING on and not swivelling. So when you are making a change in your motion you can't get to tweeked by a different (bad) ball flight. It probably means you are making the NEW MOTION correctly. Sounds to me like you need to learn to get more swivel and you'll start launching 'em high and straight.

When you are making the change you WANT a different ball flight. You need to be like "Sweet! I pushed it . . . which probably means I got the Tilt right." Your hands will figure out how to square the face at separation while you make the move. You just gotta keep making the move your focus. Embrace the push because it means your swing is changing.

Yes . . . MIKE O . . . this is what you told me!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The dead push is a path problem. The face is ok, he's just swinging too far inside-out. If you tell him to start radically over swiveling he will begin to hook the ball because the path is too inside out.

 

[Bill Miracle]

Thanks for the answers...more questions...

rundmc....first of all, I am ESTACTIC at the ball flight and compression and knowing that axis tilt is working.

The problem now is compensating and wondering how to fix the 15-25 degrees that I am off.

I looked at a video and noticed sometimes I finish a bit high and on top of the plane (as the individual in a recent thread where Brian showed a picture with a yellow line of where the finish plane should be). You could be on to something!

Jim....
While swinging, I trying to focus on hitting the first dimple inside the back of the ball. I really dont feel I am swinging out to right field. Can you comment on this???

Also, if I over-did the axis tilt...would that alone cause a push or just a higher (too high) ball flight???

At the end of the day, the shots ARE be-u-t-ful!!! (Thanks Brian).

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Couple things:

1) You might just be aiming right, didn't you say not long ago that your playing partners said you were aiming right and didn't know it?

2) You need to attach a laser to a club and swing the club and see where the light shows your path going.

 

[Bill Miracle]

Thanks again, Jim...

Couple things:

1) You might just be aiming right, didn't you say not long ago that your playing partners said you were aiming right and didn't know it?

2) You need to attach a laser to a club and swing the club and see where the light shows your path going.

1. Yeah, I was. I mentioned that I fixed the alignment problem. I'm going to still focus on making sure that is not the issue.

2. Other than the butch harmon plane laser ($60.00), any other cheaper ones you know of???

 

[Bill Miracle]

?????????/

I don't use the image of right field: I see myself swinging my hands inside the rim of a tire that is positioned to roll on the target line. Of course it tilts back from the ball line to my shoulders.

Thanks for the help but I am having trouble picturing the above. You mean 3:30 - 8:30 is inside the rim???

 

[Perfect Impact]

Imagine that your eyes are inside your neck, at the same place as a line between your shoulders. So you can look at the target line from the same perspective as some one lookng from over your shoulders. When you swing your club, you trace the plane line, as it were, and it is the same as looking down at the top of a tire that is spinning.

I imagine a tire sitting on the target line - a BIG one, and it leans back towards my shoulders. I picture myself swinging my hands to the right and up and back just as though they were tracing the inside of that tire. And the same on the downswing. I do not picture my swing as though looking down from above the target line - that path would appear to be an arc, and it is more confusing to me than swinging my hands along a straight line, - the inside of the rim.

SO if the tire is aligned with the target line, even though it is slanted back FROM that line, I see a straight line. Someone looking down from ABOVE the target line will see the arc of the club, same as when you look at the rim of a tire from somewhere other than on the line it is spinning. Your perspective sees the rim as an arc.

So I eliminate error and control direction automatically by "tracing the inside of the rim of that tire " along a STRAIGHT LINE with my HANDS, not worrying about the clubhead, because that has to follow the hands if you don't manipulate it.

The toy follows the hand that pulls the string.

Make sense?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Manzella to the rescue...

Just makes sure that your shoulders KEEP OPENING at the same rate you add the axis tilt.

BOOM and dead straight.

 

[Bill Miracle]

Thus...the answer why some go straight and some go right...

Just makes sure that your shoulders KEEP OPENING at the same rate you add the axis tilt.

BOOM and dead straight.

Thanks Brian! and everyone...great stuff

 

[rundmc]

The dead push is a path problem. The face is ok, he's just swinging too far inside-out. If you tell him to start radically over swiveling he will begin to hook the ball because the path is too inside out.

Agree . . . I was just thinking that (and maybe he didn't start here) if a dude never had any Axis Tilt he would probably be Roundhousing . . . and therefore try to HOLD ON to keep the ball from going left of left. With the new path resulting from the Tilt his hands probably would still HANG ON producing a right shot that was a result of the FACE not closing more than the Path.

Y'all are the teachers though. I don't know. Just thinkin'.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Agree . . . I was just thinking that (and maybe he didn't start here) if a dude never had any Axis Tilt he would probably be Roundhousing . . . and therefore try to HOLD ON to keep the ball from going left of left. With the new path resulting from the Tilt his hands probably would still HANG ON producing a right shot that was a result of the FACE not closing more than the Path.

Y'all are the teachers though. I don't know. Just thinkin'.

Does the "other side" every think someone can swing TOO FAR to the right?

 

[rundmc]

Does the "other side" every think someone can swing TOO FAR to the right?

Don't know dawg you'd have to ask 'em.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Don't know dawg you'd have to ask 'em.

Funniest thing you ever wrote on this forum.

Give me a break, run.

 

[birdie_man]

I don't understand.

 

[Bigwill]

I don't understand.

Regarding another difference in philosophy between LBG and Manzella golf. SOS.

 

[rundmc]

Funniest thing you ever wrote on this forum.

Give me a break, run.

Dude I ain't on no payroll. I'm just a retard in NC that likes the Machine. My earlier post didn't say ANYTHING about the 10-5-E plane line zip zero nada. Instead of trying to paint me with a Yellow brush . . . why don't you explain the problems that you see with "swinging too far right." I'll listen.

I went to see Lynn one time. He asked me to do a forum on his site because people thought that I was funny for some reason. I had ONE lesson with Lynn. Have been to see Eddie Cox and David Orr more times than I've seen Lynn.

I think Lynn is heck of a nice guy and I think he knows the book as well as anyone on the planet. He has been generous to me . . . so I am DOWN with him. David and Eddie have also been good to me. I have forum on his site to for whatever reason. His colors or ORANGE. So I reckon I'm Yellow and Orange. He's learned the MORAD stuff so I don't know what color they got so I'm a little MORAD too. But mostly MORON. Eddie don't have no website but his hair is grey . . . so I'll be grey there. So I'm DOWN with alot of people but I don't carry no secret decoder ring or wear no jersey or know no secret handshakes and passwords. I've learned a lot of stuff from you so I'm DOWN with you too.

But anyway . . . I ain't nobody's mouth piece. I'm very capable of listening and understanding and buying into to other ideas.

You're the teacher I just made a suggestion. Feel free to blast the message but don't try to make me something I ain't. The only crew I jock is the HOLLIS crew. The H to the O double L I S. I don't shoot no guns, don't box or know karate I just dig the emcee's that put the boogie in your body.

Now you taught this cat Axis Tilt . . . so I would assume he was lacking it. According to Homer (not Lynn, Eddie, or D.O.) Axis Tilt clears the Right Hip so you don't have to go AROUND it right? So I would assume that if the dude didn't have no Axis Tilt he was going around or had a CIRCLE path? Axis Tilt would help the dude go downplane right? If the ball is going right then the clubface would be open. I told him to Swivel which gets the club going up and in (or Left). So what's the big freakin deal?

I ain't mad atcha. But here's your "break."

Keep it real like a banana peel.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Like a banana peel!

Good post.

Just remember I may qoute it from time to time.

You can have too much tilt, you can have the right amount of tilt but have the shoulders too closed, etc.

And, you CAN swing too far to the right.

As far as all these camps—if everyone showed up with the cameras and met at a range with a few dozen random golfers, we could really learn something from each other.

That would include THEM learning from ME, though.