Bad instruction or...
- Thread starter torvine
- Start date
- Status
curtisj76
New
I would say NO instruction more than BAD instruction. Most people try to teach themselves by magazines, books, or DVD's. Even though the material might be great, it's still not the same as seeing someone. I'll admit that I'm guilty of this. But I'm making the change this year and seeing someone (hopefully Bmanz). I've finally come to the conclusion that I need to see someone to get me to the level I want to play at.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
If you are going to teach yourself using information off the internet or magazines,it's imperative to use a video camera and know how to use it.
The rule of thumb is....if it looks wacky,it usually is.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I absolutely disagree.
But it might be perfect and you'd be better off leaving it alone.
Richie3Jack
New
IMO, golf is difficult to master because the margin of error is incredibly small and the penalty of error is so large and varying.
I think we have all had a time where we worked extremely hard on our games and became worse as a result. That doesn't happen in most other sports.
For instance, if golf is say basketball and somebody wanted to become a better free throw shooter, they could practice and practice their free throws and somehow become worse. And not only could they be missing more free throws, but they would see some extreme missed shots. Like one shot airballing, then the next shot going over the backboard, then a brick, then another airball and then maybe a swish.
That's how golf works.
As far as instruction, I've come to believe that most instructors and golfers think that there's a lot of these absolute laws of the golf swing in order to hit the ball effectively. Instead, there's really very few of these absolute laws. So you get a lot of golfers working on stuff that they don't need to work on or stuff that doesn't work for them.
3JACK
I think we have all had a time where we worked extremely hard on our games and became worse as a result. That doesn't happen in most other sports.
For instance, if golf is say basketball and somebody wanted to become a better free throw shooter, they could practice and practice their free throws and somehow become worse. And not only could they be missing more free throws, but they would see some extreme missed shots. Like one shot airballing, then the next shot going over the backboard, then a brick, then another airball and then maybe a swish.
That's how golf works.
As far as instruction, I've come to believe that most instructors and golfers think that there's a lot of these absolute laws of the golf swing in order to hit the ball effectively. Instead, there's really very few of these absolute laws. So you get a lot of golfers working on stuff that they don't need to work on or stuff that doesn't work for them.
3JACK
Guitar Hero
New member
The concept that one end of the shaft is pointing at the plane line or parallel to be on plane.
I talked about how the plane line changes with different sweet spot paths at the last TGM summit. I demonstrated it with a laser product I designed for TGM. Brian and a few others know about this and agree but many instructors still believe in the club shaft pointing at the plane line or parallel to the plane line. This type of instruction is what I refer to as 2-D as you would use shaft plane lines with video.
There is a ton of good information in TGM book but as all TGM instructors would say there are many ways to do it. So why can’t the plane line change during the swing? Because Homer said so 40 years ago?
I always said you could use shaft planes if you were built like the machine in TGM book. The sweet spot path would be a perfect circle with that machine and you could use what Home said with shaft planes.
You could also swing on one plane if you could move like the machine in TGM book. Homers patterns in the back of the book are based on the machine as he has no plane shifts in both the hitting and swinging patterns.
All human golfers make one or more plane shifts when using shaft plane lines. Humans are not built and cannot move like the machine Homer has in the book. This is why TGM can be hard for some golfers to learn patterns by following plane lines.
A golfer might do well using shaft planes when making plane shifts when the swing is in slow motion or practiced in stages. But as soon as you make faster swings closer to you tempo you will see the shaft lines do not always match up.
Brian does an excellent job of teaching swing patterns without all the shaft planes or following lines.
I just want golfers to see that you can have a pattern that works great for you that could be off plane if you looked at it with shaft planes.
Many ways to do it.
I talked about how the plane line changes with different sweet spot paths at the last TGM summit. I demonstrated it with a laser product I designed for TGM. Brian and a few others know about this and agree but many instructors still believe in the club shaft pointing at the plane line or parallel to the plane line. This type of instruction is what I refer to as 2-D as you would use shaft plane lines with video.
There is a ton of good information in TGM book but as all TGM instructors would say there are many ways to do it. So why can’t the plane line change during the swing? Because Homer said so 40 years ago?
I always said you could use shaft planes if you were built like the machine in TGM book. The sweet spot path would be a perfect circle with that machine and you could use what Home said with shaft planes.
You could also swing on one plane if you could move like the machine in TGM book. Homers patterns in the back of the book are based on the machine as he has no plane shifts in both the hitting and swinging patterns.
All human golfers make one or more plane shifts when using shaft plane lines. Humans are not built and cannot move like the machine Homer has in the book. This is why TGM can be hard for some golfers to learn patterns by following plane lines.
A golfer might do well using shaft planes when making plane shifts when the swing is in slow motion or practiced in stages. But as soon as you make faster swings closer to you tempo you will see the shaft lines do not always match up.
Brian does an excellent job of teaching swing patterns without all the shaft planes or following lines.
I just want golfers to see that you can have a pattern that works great for you that could be off plane if you looked at it with shaft planes.
Many ways to do it.
Last edited:
jenhaoyen
New
golf..takes practice. THe right way to practice. I have been hitting on the driving range like crazy and can't get anything done. Then one day i got the right instruction from BM and things went very smoothly. I do believe it would have been much easier if i had started when i was young. LIke basketball, i don't need to play everyday, but when i go back to the court, I could shoot threes with my eyes closed. I don't think hitting the ball is hard, but to have the experience of reading greens and excellent short games takes alot of experience. Golf is not hard, it's all about experience i believe. Same thing with teaching, you need somebody who's experienced and who is not scamming your money for the lesson. I have been to millions of different lessons and I felt like I knew more than the golf teacher. I especially hate it when they say, I DON"T KNOW, when a question is being asked. I mean seriously dood, if you don't know you are fxxxxxx, and you should not be teaching.
jenhaoyen
New
I agree. You have to ask yourself what do you want when you are taking a lesson. Do you want to swing like a robot with all those crazy lines drawn? Parellel or not parellel and have to worry about this and that? What happens when you don't play golf for years, how are you able to memorize all these details. It's a sport, make it as simple as possible, and it will stick with you for life. I can recall numerous time when a golf teacher tell me i have to have my shaft here and there, baloney!!! I did it pretty good because i practice a lot, but when i don't play for month, i lose it. Now i feel like i can go for years and i could still swing the lil golf stick.
softconsult
New
Short Practice Story
Thought I would just share this. I'm not a golf instructor, but I know enough to sometimes help.
So I'm hitting balls and an older guy, also hitting balls, strikes up a conversation. First thing out of his mouth is that he is 67 years old and has lost flexibility. He is a former scratch player and looks athletic. He has all hybrid irons. He asks if I see anything.
His grip is in his palm. I change his grip, and get the heel pad on top, Manzella neutral, or really the same as I learned back in 1960. It took many different word sets and manipulation to get him to do it. Hard to break habits.
Then I showed him what was happening due to rolling his wrists open on backswing.
The satisfying thing was that he was smart, and able to change things. He started hitting it 20 yards farther, with great rhythm. Misses, of course, but he left the range with a big smile vowing to practice hard.
Thought I would just share this. I'm not a golf instructor, but I know enough to sometimes help.
So I'm hitting balls and an older guy, also hitting balls, strikes up a conversation. First thing out of his mouth is that he is 67 years old and has lost flexibility. He is a former scratch player and looks athletic. He has all hybrid irons. He asks if I see anything.
His grip is in his palm. I change his grip, and get the heel pad on top, Manzella neutral, or really the same as I learned back in 1960. It took many different word sets and manipulation to get him to do it. Hard to break habits.
Then I showed him what was happening due to rolling his wrists open on backswing.
The satisfying thing was that he was smart, and able to change things. He started hitting it 20 yards farther, with great rhythm. Misses, of course, but he left the range with a big smile vowing to practice hard.
ggsjpc
New
motor skills are part information and part learning how to tell your body to do what it does. For example, we all know what all the letters of the alphabet look like. However, if we take the pencil in our other hand, we have no idea how to tell our hand how to do what we want it to do. This takes time. Now lets assume that you don't know what the letters look like(teacher does) and someone is trying to teach you cursive in your opposite hand.
Learning a motor skill is an intensive thought involved process. If you're not engaged you won't learn it well enough to own it.
Learning a motor skill is an intensive thought involved process. If you're not engaged you won't learn it well enough to own it.
self-mastery
New
Golf is not something you master.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I'm tellin' you guys....
It's Ignorance.
It's Ignorance.
Z
Zztop
Guest
is it ignorance for everyone? or are there multiple reason's, like a lot of conflicting instruction one teacher say's this and another teacher say's that, one book say's this and another say's the exact opposite. one teacher say's uncock the wrist's from the top immediately, another say's hold on to the angle in the right wrist all the way to the finish, who is right? who is wrong? maybe some of the ignorance fall"s to the teaching side! teaching ball flight laws that are wrong for how many years? now that's ignorance! hey but who knew, right.
if the so called expert's can't agree what chance do we the ignorant have.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Oh, absolutely yes.
The one that tells the student they is only one way to do it, and the teacher that KNOWS there isn't just one way, but tells the student the wrong one for them.
That's teacher ignorance for giving the wrong info, and student ignorance for picking the wrong guy for their game.
You betcha.
It is your job to pick the teacher who is the least amount ignorant.
Z
Zztop
Guest
now that is a hard job, but definitely worth the effort . i think i'm at the right
place finally, no change that, i know i'm at the right place ! your reply to
my post should convince a lot of people they are also at the right place,which i'm sure they already know! thanks brian for all your hard work and countless hours helping us be less ignorant.
Steve Greffen
New
Ahhh....let's not forget though, Brian's countless hours to make himself not ignorant. He may be the least ignorant instructor out there but even that doesn't stop him for the quest to be even less ignorant!!!!!!
Funny way to say it but it does make sense! Hey your quest is helping guys like me not settle for mediocre ignorance myself.
Thanks.
Funny way to say it but it does make sense! Hey your quest is helping guys like me not settle for mediocre ignorance myself.
Thanks.
- Status