Best ball-striker you ever saw up close....

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Brian Manzella

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This is a topic over at Lynn's place and I taught I get you guys' take...

Here is mine:

The best?

Lee Trevino by FAR.

Hit had a lot of MASH and hit the MIDDLE of the sweetspot every time and hit it DEAD where he was looking.

Johnny Miller hit the PRETTY-ist ball I ever saw. And at least 3 shots a round stone dead (lick in range).

Byron Nelson in his 60's hit it DEAD STRAIGHT every damn time, no curve. Just one yard pulls and 1 yard pushes. You got the felling he would NEVER miss a fairway.

Tom Bartlett—in his mid-20's—was the most impressive driver of the ball ever.
30 yards longer than anyone who hit it as straight.

David Toms hits the sweetspot more times than anyone...EVER. And always hole-high.

As far as moving the ball around at will...?

There was this fat guy at Caton that even impressed the unimpressable Ben Doyle...
;)[8D]:D
 
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MizunoJoe

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Todd Baker, who played the various satellite tours. An unknown because he couldn't putt. And I've seen Nicklaus, Player, Palmer, Norman, Watson, O'Grady, and Trevino in their prime hit hundreds of shots on the range and in tournament play up as close as you can get.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Bobby Schaeffer in his playing days was as good as any thanks to Ben and Gregg.

He has busted XXX driver shafts on the downstroke load in tournaments and many times in practice.

Many of you dont like his pattern, but so what who cares! He is the best.
Remember 3B playing and practicing we are talking about the best ball striker here not the number 1 player on the money list.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

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quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

Bobby Schaeffer in his playing days was as good as any thanks to Ben and Gregg.

He has busted XXX driver shafts on the downstroke load in tournaments and many times in practice.

Many of you dont like his pattern, but so what who cares! He is the best.
Remember 3B playing and practicing we are talking about the best ball striker here not the number 1 player on the money list.
Click to expand...

Khatib,

I love Bobby's stroke. How can people not like his pattern? I'd like you to go into some depth about Bobby's pattern (double shift, float loading, etc...) and tell us more stories about his ball striking ability.

Thank you!
 
jpvegas1

jpvegas1

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I would have to start with the usual suspects, Lee Trevino and Johnny Miller, but I would add Tom Weiskopf, Tommy Bolt and Greg Norman.

Tom Weiskopf hit the ball as pure as anybody with just about every club in the bag. Greg Norman was by far the longest straight driver that I have seen. Lastly, Tommy Bolt could call and hit any shot you wanted. I saw him play towards the end of his career which was in the days before yardage books. He was playing with a young pro who kept looking in Tommy's bag after every shot to see what club he hit. They got to a 200 yard par 3 and Tommy feathered a driver to about 15 feet and just stared at the pro and said I hope this helps.[8D]
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Tongzilla, with due respect I leave this one to Billy Mc Kinney as he is the most qualified to answer this one better than I. Bill your thoughts pro (Billy Ray answer this one before not after your next cocktail and keep yor mind in your hands)
 
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Golfchicago

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Lee Trevino is the best Ive seen. I started playing in the early 70s. The merry mex and Jack were my two favorite. Lee is by far the best. He was the most consistent of all the pros.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

Bobby Schaeffer in his playing days was as good as any thanks to Ben and Gregg.

He has busted XXX driver shafts on the downstroke load in tournaments and many times in practice.

Many of you dont like his pattern, but so what who cares! He is the best.
Remember 3B playing and practicing we are talking about the best ball striker here not the number 1 player on the money list.
Click to expand...

Khatib,

I love Bobby's stroke. How can people not like his pattern? I'd like you to go into some depth about Bobby's pattern (double shift, float loading, etc...) and tell us more stories about his ball striking ability.

Thank you!
Click to expand...

They dont like his patter because they cant appreciate it properly as all of the recently authorised GSEB'S employ short radius' and random to sweep release with sweep assembly/loading patterns this is the modern TGM I suppose too bad Ben or Gregg cant authorise anymore if they could 'those that have the ability'(not everyone) to produce maximum participation patterns would be instead of being limited by this trend.
 
M

MizunoJoe

New
What I see in this pattern, which is evident in many Doyle students, is the contrivance of the shaft-up-the-left-arm to the both arms straight position and beyond. Look here -

http://www.grumpygolf.com/

Using the esc key, stop the action with both arms straight and the right arm parallel to the ground - the shaft is STILL in line with the left arm! Most top players do this only on specialty knockdown shots. This seems like an affectation - sort of a badge of honor or a secret sign of a select club. A forward slanting shaft is required only til just past separation. For example, when Woods' driver head is only a few inches past impact, the shaft is slanted backwards and is no longer in line with his left arm, and the club is pointing to the middle of his chest -

http://redgoat.smugmug.com/gallery/80234/1/2799814
 
billmckinneygolf

billmckinneygolf

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Bobby Schaeffer is a freak of nature (though only 5'8 and 160). I've played several hundred rounds with him over the last 21 years (teammates at UCSB) and I've seen him not only hit 350 yard drives, but shape shots exactly like they needed to be done.
Beside being a freak physically, he has, as 4 Barrels said, taken the compatible options to the maximum. Max participation and max trigger delay. He gave up the shaft-breaking snap-loading years ago, but you can still see those X shafts stress like crazy.
I've played with Bobby in groups with other pros who were known to be long hitters and he'd still be 25 yards ahead of them.
A few years ago, we went out to play with Bob May right after he lost to Tiger at the PGA, and May said Schaeffer was one of the best players he'd ever seen and couldn't believe that he wasn't on tour.
How many more stories do you want? There are guys who are freak straight hitters, but Bobby is the most impressive overall.
 
billmckinneygolf

billmckinneygolf

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By the way, Bobby is very private and sort of eccentric. He reads this once in a while, but I doubt he'll ever contribute.
He's done a lot of videos if you want to see him explain his pattern.
Basically, it's a lot of Hogan, Trevino, Jones and a touch of John Daly all thrown into a bag, shaken up and poured into that little
edgy nut. He's my best friend, though.
 
billmckinneygolf

billmckinneygolf

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Another good one about him is when we went Cabo about 3 years ago and played all those courses for a few days when he was really on his A Power (as he likes to call it). He was literally driving it over the par 4s and chipping back as Homer said. We kept waiting for the group ahead to finish and everyone's jaw kept dropping when he'd knock it on or over.
By the way, Scheaffer shot 64 with May but made 13 birdies in 24 holes. May is an unbelievable ball-striker, as well. Very thumpy.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Bobby's length is because of his "freakiness". Clubhead speed in a CF swing boils down to how well you use wristcock and how fast you can rotate. The wrists can only be cocked so much and sustained so long in the DS and, like running, the speed of hip/shoulder rotation is limited for any individual. Watching Bobby explain his pattern won't turn the viewer into a freak.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
Watching Bobby swing in a few of his tapes, it certainly doesn't look like he tries to hammer it physically (like with Tiger) to the untrained eye. It doesn't look like he rotates really quick either. But it has a wonderful whip to it. I can imagine Bobby to be quite a strong guy too. Obviously, his technique is the major factor in this ball striking ability, but then if that was only factor, you (Billy and Khatib) would probably be as long as Bobby ;)

You mentioned that Bob has given up on Snap Loading. Is it because of accuracy/control issues (or just because he didn't want to break any more shafts?)?

Bill, can you give me your contact so I can learn more about your lessons?
 
billmckinneygolf

billmckinneygolf

New
This is classic My Way and The Way stuff. Bobby does swing very smoothly..low speed-high thrust.
Gregg has always taught us how to make the physics take care of the geometry. He taught us how to make the pivot dig a little deeper than you normally see or hear about.
Bobby said Snaploading is hard on his joints (let alone the shafts), plus a late random load is a bit more reliable day-in day-out.
And Khatib and I played a PGA Chapter tournament and he is longer than the average bear.
 
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