best way to shift during downswing

[thefuture37]

The underplane thread got me thinking about this and the swings from the pgatour slow motion site. Most of the players(DTL view) from that site that have high arms/across the line at the top get their arms to their downswing plane by tilting their shoulders(some excessively) during the downswing, so that at the impact position they have stood up considerably from their address posture. The players that have their arms more on the turned shoulder plane at the top appear to do very little with their arms during the downswing, as they turn their bodies around their spine angle through impact(maintaining the posture they had at address). More interesting though is a player like furyk, who is way above the tsp at the top. Unlike the other players like this, who tilt their shoulders on the downswing, furyk reroutes his arms independent of his shoulders, all while rotating his body around a constant spine angle.

Is it preferable(more consistent for most people) to either have the club in a position at the top so that you do not have to tilt the shoulders during the downswing? Or if you have a backswing that does not do this, is it better to get the club on the correct downswing plane with your arms rather than by tilting your shoulders? The players that turn around a constant spine angle through the ball(i.e. Garcia, Furyk) look so much more in balance than players that stand way up through impact(i.e. Chad Campbell, Calcevecchia). These players also tend to have their back foot slide backwards through impact. How much does this matter for consistent ballstriking?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is it preferable(more consistent for most people) to either have the club in a position at the top so that you do not have to tilt the shoulders during the downswing?

No.

You need to tilt them anyway to get any UUMPH.

...if you have a backswing that does not do this, is it better to get the club on the correct downswing plane with your arms rather than by tilting your shoulders?

The important thing is the PLANE LINE and the PATH (two different things by the way).

The players that turn around a constant spine angle through the ball(i.e. Garcia, Furyk) look so much more in balance than players that stand way up through impact(i.e. Chad Campbell, Calcevecchia). These players also tend to have their back foot slide backwards through impact. How much does this matter for consistent ballstriking?

Next to zero.

 

[thefuture37]

So does this mean that the more you tilt your shoulders in the downswing, the more power you generate?

 

[birdie_man]

The important thing is the PLANE LINE and the PATH (two different things by the way).

You speak of path as a 3D thing I presume?

 

[shortgamer]

So does this mean that the more you tilt your shoulders in the downswing, the more power you generate?

I would think the closer to being on plane the more efficient the power package would be. If the clubhead where a rock on a string tied to your left shoulder it would only make sense to me that the shoulders should be spinning on the same plane as the golf ball??

 

[thefuture37]

Let me be clear that I do not mean that the players that rotate through the ball with a somewhat constant spine angle(garcia, furyk) do not have some shoulder/axis tilt. What I am saying is that these players do not use their axis/shoulder tilt in order to get the club on plane in the downswing. Instead, the axis tilt looks like it just happens, rather than the players in the other group, who use a big tilting of the shoulders to get the club on plane.

 

[Medici999]

i try to make my right shoulder go down towards the ball but this still doesnt stop me from getting over the top. i have a problem with my right hip moving out towards the ball which means i spin out.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Let me be clear that I do not mean that the players that rotate through the ball with a somewhat constant spine angle(garcia, furyk) do not have some shoulder/axis tilt. What I am saying is that these players do not use their axis/shoulder tilt in order to get the club on plane in the downswing. Instead, the axis tilt looks like it just happens, rather than the players in the other group, who use a big tilting of the shoulders to get the club on plane.

Like Retief. I know exactly what you're saying.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

So does this mean that the more you tilt your shoulders in the downswing, the more power you generate?

potentially; you will be "on-plane" and usually the more tilt someone has the more trigger delay they will get and in *most* cases can lead to more speed.

 

[thefuture37]

potentially; you will be "on-plane" and usually the more tilt someone has the more trigger delay they will get and in *most* cases can lead to more speed.

But is the trigger delay due to the tilt? Sergio has tons of trigger delay and he doesn't use his tilt to plane the club.

 

[flapro]

From experience, I have found it foolish to underestimate the power and importance of the hands; no flippers allowed but the hands contribute a passive yet kinetic effect on impact. Hands positioning during the swing produces optimal conditions for impact.
Sergio by the way has severe downcocking by keeping the hands extremely passive.

But is the trigger delay due to the tilt? Sergio has tons of trigger delay and he doesn't use his tilt to plane the club.

 

[mrodock]

i try to make my right shoulder go down towards the ball but this still doesnt stop me from getting over the top. i have a problem with my right hip moving out towards the ball which means i spin out.

tee up a ball (fairly low) inside your right foot so it's about an inch or so from your right ankle . . . make swings so your ankle or instep clips the ball off the tee . . . this will get your knees and feet working more "in line" and help you get the feeling of working the right heel more on line rather than poping up as a result of spinning out your right hip.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I dont know. I think the more tilt the smaller space you have to swing. So having more trigger delay is the only way to fit the club in there.

 

[thefuture37]

I dont know. I think the more tilt the smaller space you have to swing. So having more trigger delay is the only way to fit the club in there.

Right. Thats why the "tilters" stand up so much through impact. Otherwise the club would never get back to the ball.

 

[birdie_man]

I dont know. I think the more tilt the smaller space you have to swing. So having more trigger delay is the only way to fit the club in there.

Smaller space? That went over my head Kevin. (hope I'm not the only guy)

(but have a couple rum and cokes in me)

 

[Kevin Shields]

Thats okay. Prob a bad choice of description. Early releasers stand up to give themselves more room so the won't bash the club off the ground. When you have axis tilt or a low right shoulder you have less room to fit the club in so you need more delay.

 

[birdie_man]

Ahhh ic. Thanks.