Big heads
- Thread starter curtisj76
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curtisj76
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More than 1/2 the ball?
golfbulldog
New
I have read somewhere ( maybe Tom Wishon site) that the location of impact on clubface is about loft launch as much as COG.
People who find that they hit really well on the upper part of the vertical clubface bulge might think that they are geting some COR spring like benefit bit i think Wishon says that they are actually hitting it on the bulge of clubface with right loft for their swing. ie. more loft than the stated model...
Here is a quote from Tom WIshon discussing vertical curve on driver Bulge / vertical gear effect)
"TWW
USA
3944 Posts
Posted - Apr 01 2005 : 12:57:11 PM
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MIKE:
Good question you ask because it is logical to assume that and there have been a few articles in magazines here or there about the "vertical gear effect".
It is true that there is a vertical gear effect when you hit any clubhead above or below the point where the Center of Gravity would be on the face. However, this is a very VERY small effect for several reasons. First, how much the head can twist about the CG axis is determined by how far above or below the CG you make contact. Face heights are far less in dimension than are face widths so you can;t really hit the ball that far above or below the CG to make a vertical gear effect happen.
Second, the shaft acts as a tremendous "brace" to prevent the head from rotating about the horizontal axis of the CG. For the bulge gear effect no such brace of that magnitude exists to restrict the head's rotation from an off center hit about its vertical CG axis. This reason is the main one that the vertical gear effect is very minimal in its effect on the shot.
Last reason has to do with the actual change in the shot parameters for any vertical gear effect. In a short article in Golf Digest about a year ago, Taylor Made's engineers stated that they had never seen a spin change due to vertical gear effect that was more than 200 rpms of backspin. And when you factor in what only a change of 200rpms in backspin does to ball flight, it is negligible. THus hitting the ball low on the face where a vertical gear effect could increase backspin by some 200 rpms, that is not even close to enough to offset the decreased loft at the bottom of the face and its effect on launch angle. So bottom line is that the vertical gear effect is real and does happen, but because of all these things it exists simply as a phenomenon that can be measured but which has no real visible effect on the shot.
The only reason and I mean ONLY reason that I leave a little more loft on the top of the face of my GRT designs is simply because I believe strongly that most golfers still won;t buy drivers with enough loft for them to achieve their optimal launch angle for max distance. So leaving a little more loft on the top of the GRT faces is my way of providing a sort of "insurange policy" that they won;t get penalized when they tee it up high and make usual contact on the top of the face. After that, GRT then works very well to keep the launch angle up there where it needs to be to offer more yardage when the golfer makes contact low on the face.
Thanks for your post as it was a very good question to ask,
TOM "
People who find that they hit really well on the upper part of the vertical clubface bulge might think that they are geting some COR spring like benefit bit i think Wishon says that they are actually hitting it on the bulge of clubface with right loft for their swing. ie. more loft than the stated model...
Here is a quote from Tom WIshon discussing vertical curve on driver Bulge / vertical gear effect)
"TWW
USA
3944 Posts
Posted - Apr 01 2005 : 12:57:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MIKE:
Good question you ask because it is logical to assume that and there have been a few articles in magazines here or there about the "vertical gear effect".
It is true that there is a vertical gear effect when you hit any clubhead above or below the point where the Center of Gravity would be on the face. However, this is a very VERY small effect for several reasons. First, how much the head can twist about the CG axis is determined by how far above or below the CG you make contact. Face heights are far less in dimension than are face widths so you can;t really hit the ball that far above or below the CG to make a vertical gear effect happen.
Second, the shaft acts as a tremendous "brace" to prevent the head from rotating about the horizontal axis of the CG. For the bulge gear effect no such brace of that magnitude exists to restrict the head's rotation from an off center hit about its vertical CG axis. This reason is the main one that the vertical gear effect is very minimal in its effect on the shot.
Last reason has to do with the actual change in the shot parameters for any vertical gear effect. In a short article in Golf Digest about a year ago, Taylor Made's engineers stated that they had never seen a spin change due to vertical gear effect that was more than 200 rpms of backspin. And when you factor in what only a change of 200rpms in backspin does to ball flight, it is negligible. THus hitting the ball low on the face where a vertical gear effect could increase backspin by some 200 rpms, that is not even close to enough to offset the decreased loft at the bottom of the face and its effect on launch angle. So bottom line is that the vertical gear effect is real and does happen, but because of all these things it exists simply as a phenomenon that can be measured but which has no real visible effect on the shot.
The only reason and I mean ONLY reason that I leave a little more loft on the top of the face of my GRT designs is simply because I believe strongly that most golfers still won;t buy drivers with enough loft for them to achieve their optimal launch angle for max distance. So leaving a little more loft on the top of the GRT faces is my way of providing a sort of "insurange policy" that they won;t get penalized when they tee it up high and make usual contact on the top of the face. After that, GRT then works very well to keep the launch angle up there where it needs to be to offer more yardage when the golfer makes contact low on the face.
Thanks for your post as it was a very good question to ask,
TOM "
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
I've still got a 983k in the bag, I love it, no other driver I have had compares to the feel of the ball coming off of the face of a 983. I don't know what it is. I have tried the 905 & 907, they just don't feel the same. I guess I'll be looking for backups.
I play with a guy who has the latest and greates Cobra driver and I am right there with him
I play with a guy who has the latest and greates Cobra driver and I am right there with him
curtis,
Don't forget when you tee the ball high with a 460, you will need to hover the clubs sweetspot right behind the ball as you set up your "distance from the ball"..
If you then allow the club to sit on the ground it will seem as if you are addressing off the toe.. That is normal.
If you address with the sole of the club on the ground like you have been used to, you will be fractionally too close to the ball and can suffer a lot of heel shots....
Don't forget when you tee the ball high with a 460, you will need to hover the clubs sweetspot right behind the ball as you set up your "distance from the ball"..
If you then allow the club to sit on the ground it will seem as if you are addressing off the toe.. That is normal.
If you address with the sole of the club on the ground like you have been used to, you will be fractionally too close to the ball and can suffer a lot of heel shots....
I've got problems then, lol! I'm playing a 975D. I think those are 265cc.
So, basically, we're better off trying to hit the ball dead in the middle of the clubface to maximize ball speed, rather than trying to hit it higer on the face in order to knock off a negligible amount of spin, right?
curtisj76
New
I have been doing this. I address the ball in the air and then lower it to the ground. Today I tee'd the ball higher and was hitting it much better. It was more than a 1/2 a ball for sure.
They showed one of Tiger's driver impacts in slow motion the other week on our golf channel...
The contact was above center and he hit the ball 370 yards, nearly all carry....
johngolf33
New
You really need to try them all. Go to a Demo Day if possible that has a launch monitor. I did yesterday and ended up with a MacTech driver and picked up about 15 yards of carry and 5 mph of clubhead speed. Who would of thought.
They showed one of Tiger's driver impacts in slow motion the other week on our golf channel...
The contact was above center and he hit the ball 370 yards, nearly all carry....
Just imagine if he hit it in the center of the clubface...
golfbulldog
New
They showed one of Tiger's driver impacts in slow motion the other week on our golf channel...
The contact was above center and he hit the ball 370 yards, nearly all carry....
No doubt that for many golfers achieve outstanding results with this.
The question that Tom Wishon is intersted is why does this occur... assuming that the reason is the same for all golfers - and hence telling all golfers to do the same thing - is perhaps naive, unless the reason is understood and applicable to all.
In irons... do you really want to have impact above sweetspot (the representation of the centre of gravity on the clubface)... no....for maximum energy transfer you want to hit the sweetspot... you get less clubface rotation and maximum enregy transfer.
There are two consequences of hitting the driver above the sweetspot. One is , as Wishon explains, that there is a bit of extra loft up there ( due to clubface bulge) and this is actually the driver loft that the player should play...not the ego trip printed on the bottom...
The other is that for a few very high swing speed players there is a real benefit from COR and trampoline effect.... ( at least that is what i heard but do not have the physics to understand why it is only supposed to be of benefit to high swing speed....)
SO... i reckon that sweetspot impact with driver of correct loft to achieve optimum launch angle is the best option...
only based on what i have read.... when i hit my best drives though they all hit above centre.... time to change to 11.5 degree driver and hit the middle of the clubface!!!
birdie_man
New
It has to do with the ball being hit higher above the club's COG.
Higher launch....lower spin.
Not as much ballspeed tho.....which is what Cleveland (Hi-Bore) and whoever else are trying to fix with these new drivers.
Higher launch....lower spin.
Not as much ballspeed tho.....which is what Cleveland (Hi-Bore) and whoever else are trying to fix with these new drivers.
Yeah. The sales pitch I saw for the Hi Bore was that it moves the hot spot (or whatever you want to call it) closer to the center of the clubface, so you don't have to choose between ball speed and launch/spin.
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