Building Blocks Question - Throwout Action

[gyli84]

Great video Brian - for me its really simplified the swing and clarified what my foundations need to be!

I have a question though about the throwout action which you demonstrate whilst conducting the pitch shot. From the video the idea I get is that a swinger's throwout action encompasses an uncocking of the left wrist assisted by centrifugal force and then a rolling of the left wrist through the release, to square the clubface up at impact.

My question is - what should my right wrist be doing during this throwout action? Should it also be uncocking and unhinging to impact? I ask because in the chip shot procedure you demonstrate, you emphasise that the right wrist should remain bent/hinged, and thus the clubface is squared at impact through the combination of the pivot and the straightening right elbow/arm.

When practicing I thus feel that there are 2 ways to throwout/release and square up the clubface during a pitch to full swing once the STORE postion is reached - one is through letting centrifugal force uncock BOTH my left and right wrists and then rolling my left wrist whilst unhinging my right wrist to square the face up at impact (which to me feels a little flippy) and the second method is through straightening my right arm and using my pivot whilst still keeping my right wrist bent back/hinged - much like the feeling of squaring up the clubface during the chip-shot (to me this feels more powerful and less flippy with the potential to keep the lag longer).

Should I feel like I am shooting out the marble with my uncocking and rolling left wrist or through straightening my right elbow whilst keeping my right wrist bent back?

Is one method correct/superior to the other, or am I totally barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Well....

Should I feel like I am shooting out the marble with my uncocking and rolling left wrist or through straightening my right elbow whilst keeping my right wrist bent back?

Is one method correct/superior to the other, or am I totally barking up the wrong tree?

I would TRY to do it with my PIVOT.

 

[gyli84]

Thanks Brian.

What in particular should I be doing with my right wrist in a pitch/punch/full swing once the STORE position is reached and I need to throwout/release the club.

Should I:

a) keep it bent back as in the chipping procedure - thus squaring up the clubface with my pivot + straightening right arm

or

b) unhinge and uncock the right wrist to impact as the left wrist rolls and unhinges to impact - thrown out by centrifugal force. Thus squaring up the clubface more with my wrists and a throwout action.

Thanks again.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hmmm....

What in particular should I be doing with my right wrist in a pitch/punch/full swing once the STORE position is reached and I need to throwout/release the club.

Should I:

a) keep it bent back as in the chipping procedure - thus squaring up the clubface with my pivot + straightening right arm

Your right wrist HAS TO STRAIGHTEN some to get to IMPACT correctly from the top (unless you restricted it going back). But I wouldn't EVER try to "time" that with my right arm. But you could—obvioulsly.

...or b) unhinge and uncock the right wrist to impact as the left wrist rolls and unhinges to impact - thrown out by centrifugal force. Thus squaring up the clubface more with my wrists and a throwout action.

I like that better, but... plenty of ways to do it.

 

[JeffM]

Brian - are his questions anatomically accurate?

He states-: "one is through letting centrifugal force uncock BOTH my left and right wrists and then rolling my left wrist whilst unhinging my right wrist to square the face up at impact."

Surely, there is no cocking of the right wrist in the backswing, and if the there is no cocking in the backswing, then there can be no uncocking during the downswing. It is my impression that the right wrist only hinges back during the backswing, and that there is no added cocking action.

It also my understanding that the left wrist doesn't hinge in the full backswing, and that it only cocks upwards. The left forearm rotates clockwise (pronates) during the backswing which allows the left thumb to be directed towards the right shoulder area. Therefore, surely his question "unhinge and uncock the right wrist to impact as the left wrist rolls and unhinges to impact - thrown out by centrifugal force" is anatomically incorrect on two accounts - i) the left wrist doesn't unhinge (because it was never hinged in the first place) and ii) the right wrist doesn't uncock (because it was never upcocked in the first place)?

Another question. If the correct impact alignment/fix at impact is a straight/flat left wrist and the hands are positioned opposite the left thigh at impact, then surely there has to be a slight back-hinging (dorsiflexion) of the right wrist at impact? That means that the right wrist cannot possibly unhinge completely during the downswing because that would force the left wrist to be cupped (hinged backwards) at impact - which is a "no-no" if one wants a square clubface at impact (which requres a flat left wrist)?

Jeff.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Video...

I will try to do a video today on this question.

 

[gyli84]

Brian - are his questions anatomically accurate?

He states-: "one is through letting centrifugal force uncock BOTH my left and right wrists and then rolling my left wrist whilst unhinging my right wrist to square the face up at impact."

Surely, there is no cocking of the right wrist in the backswing, and if the there is no cocking in the backswing, then there can be no uncocking during the downswing. It is my impression that the right wrist only hinges back during the backswing, and that there is no added cocking action.

It also my understanding that the left wrist doesn't hinge in the full backswing, and that it only cocks upwards. The left forearm rotates clockwise (pronates) during the backswing which allows the left thumb to be directed towards the right shoulder area. Therefore, surely his question "unhinge and uncock the right wrist to impact as the left wrist rolls and unhinges to impact - thrown out by centrifugal force" is anatomically incorrect on two accounts - i) the left wrist doesn't unhinge (because it was never hinged in the first place) and ii) the right wrist doesn't uncock (because it was never upcocked in the first place)?

Another question. If the correct impact alignment/fix at impact is a straight/flat left wrist and the hands are positioned opposite the left thigh at impact, then surely there has to be a slight back-hinging (dorsiflexion) of the right wrist at impact? That means that the right wrist cannot possibly unhinge completely during the downswing because that would force the left wrist to be cupped (hinged backwards) at impact - which is a "no-no" if one wants a square clubface at impact (which requres a flat left wrist)?

Jeff.

I feel that there is some right wrist cocking in the backswing and that there is also some left wrist hinging (although the right wrist primarily hinges and the left wrist primarily cocks). To me, this is most easily felt when performing the Building Blocks swing procedure horizontal to the ground - going to the chip shot backswing, and then turning the face of the club towards the sky and moving to the pitch shot backswing. Personally, I feel that if you were only allowed to hinge your right wrist on the backswing then your plane would be too far back and not enough up - at least this is what I have found whilst experimenting.

Also, I am aware that the right wrist shouldn't unhinge COMPLETELY in the downswing - and I never said that it should. I merely stated that one method of squaring up/releasing the clubface involves more uncocking and unhinging of the right wrist through impact - as the left wrist rolls to impact - than another method.

Anyway, back to topic:

I asked this question because I wanted to clarify the throwout/release demonstrated in Building Blocks. In the chip shot procedure no rolling of the left wrist is mentioned so I assumed that the pivot and the straightening right arm did most of the squaring of the clubface - and this keeps the right wrist bent back and the left wrist flat.

When progressing to the pitch shot procedure my first impression of what Brian is instructing me to do in the video during the throwout is let centrifugal force uncock the left wrist and then unhinge and uncock the right wrist whilst rolling the left wrist to square up the clubface at impact (sequential release).

BUT, then I thought, that's not what I was told to do to get to impact from the chip shot backswing. During the chip shot backswing my thoughts were to straighten my right arm and keep my right wrist bent back - which obviously results in less left wrist rolling and more squaring up the clubface with the pivot + straightening right arm. I then started experimenting with this type of release for pitching/full swing and started wondering whether this is what Brian was actually telling me to do in the video in the first place - after all, the pitch shot is supposed to build up from the chip shot.

Reading Brian's reply I now realise that the right arm straightening method involves more timing and would probably result in alot of pushes - although it certainly keeps the right wrist bent back and the left wrist flat! Also, I heard Brian say in another topic that the more you learn to keep a flat left wrist the more you need to learn to roll your wrists - so that definitely emphasises which method of releasing Brian prefers.

Brian, I look forward to your video clarifying this question - the throwout action/release (its probably also related to the 'need the lag' topic someone else posted). Keep up the good work!

 

[gyli84]

Brian, just read that you're going to be trying to do the video on the 'need the lag' topic. Will this be related to this topic of how to correctly throwout/release the club?

I seriously appreciate the time you invest in us ordinary members. Sorry for being a pain in the ass, and thanks in advance!