Bumpy Back
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Dear grs,
I receivied notice that my PM was full, and have attempted to clear some room. Please try again, and if it fails, I have NO problem with a new post on this thread.
To answer your question, just search on Google for "Bumpy Back vs Diagonal Stance". That thread has 5 pages and is a good up to date summary of all you need to know to try what IMO will be a significant improvement to your ball striking experiences.
Please do NOT hesitate to ask any questions you may have, as that is the ONLY way I learn on this my passionate journey to find 'golf truth' through science, not 'trial and error' which IMO has been the ONLY method available for hundreds of years.
Sincerely,
art
Dear grs,
To answer your question, just search on Google for "Bumpy Back vs Diagonal Stance". That thread has 5 pages and is a good up to date summary of all you need to know to try what IMO will be a significant improvement to your ball striking experiences.
Sorry, I just received 5 notices that my PM was full, and have attempted to clear some room. Please try again, and if it fails, I have NO problem with a new post on this thread from the PM you wrote.
Please do NOT hesitate to ask any questions you may have, as that is the ONLY way I learn on this my passionate journey to find 'golf truth' through science, not 'trial and error' which IMO has been the ONLY method available for hundreds of years.
Finally, please stay attached to Brian's site as I , having met him and several other of his Academy folks clearly convinced me they also believe in the contribution science, especially 'applied golf science' can make to the almost 60 million golfers world wide.
Sincerely,
art
I think that would be a great idea. I am sure a lot of people are like me in that they understand movements better when they see it rather when reading about it.
JEREMY5577
New
Art,
In my own personal case I struggled with BBKIB when it was first presented here last winter. So I put it aside and went to work on handle rotation and where to apply the torques in my arm swing. After getting close there I revisited BBKIB for more stability and bam I think I understand it now.
But my point is alot of these guys who don't understand BBKIB or can't get it to work are probably using their hips to compensate for a poor arm swing and are very confused by it all. By holding your hip back it will feel un athletic to someone who has gotten around timing a flip (like me). So if you can't get BBKIB to work (and it is pretty much as simple as turning your trail hip a little and holding it there) than you probably aren't swinging with your arms correctly. IMHO
In my own personal case I struggled with BBKIB when it was first presented here last winter. So I put it aside and went to work on handle rotation and where to apply the torques in my arm swing. After getting close there I revisited BBKIB for more stability and bam I think I understand it now.
But my point is alot of these guys who don't understand BBKIB or can't get it to work are probably using their hips to compensate for a poor arm swing and are very confused by it all. By holding your hip back it will feel un athletic to someone who has gotten around timing a flip (like me). So if you can't get BBKIB to work (and it is pretty much as simple as turning your trail hip a little and holding it there) than you probably aren't swinging with your arms correctly. IMHO
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I posted this in another thread but here is Nick Watney doing it.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gMiu052UdmM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gMiu052UdmM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Dear Parhunter and pokerlife,
My thanks to spmurph, for for finding the famous Nick Watney 'Bumpy back' video at Riviera and re-posting it on this string.
Please note how little his rear hip has turned at impact indicating how WELL he executed the "keep it back" part of BBKIB. While this took place in my home town of Pacific Palisades, I would love to be able to say I had some direct contact with him. I did not, unfortunately, but if any one reading this has a relationship with him, I would appreciate an introduction to him .
For those of you wanting a video from me, that is improbable at this time SO let me HIGHLY ENDORSE what you see in the Nick Watney video, and just add a few observations for those of us not quite as talented.
Very fortunately, he is wearing rain gear with wonderfully placed WHITE markers, so you can clearly see the degree of 'Bumpy Back he has employed. MANY OF US WILL NEED MORE THAN THE INCH OR SO HE IS USING. This MINIMUM amount is HIS result of already possessing significant lower body dynamic balance. This EXTRA inch, however, does several additional things, ALL GOOD.
(1) It provides a consistent starting location.
(2) It provides extra dynamic stability MARGIN for him, BUT MANY OF US WILL NEED MORE.
(3) It pre-activates many muscle slings that will soon participate in his golf swing, which will add even more to the expected stretch shorten cycles (SSC) we all depend upon.
(4) It greatly enhances the 'kinematic sequencing' of the critical rotating elements of the swing, ie, pelvis, torso, arms etc, ESPECIALLY if the "keep it back' part of BBKIB is honored AND the rear hip FOLLOWS the descending arms in the downswing.
Again, thanks to all of your interest in this area.
Appreciatively,
art
Dear spmurph,
As an Italian originally from New York, I was blessed to marry a 'Shea' from Oklahoma, so I hope that the murph letters in your 'handle' are an indication of your heritage.
Thanks again for re-posting the video of Nick Watney, I believe this will help a lot of folks trying to perfect their own unique BBKIB characteristics. And, if you took this video, is it possible you know, and can introduce me to him ?
As for your stated problem above, I see the science behind it being the distribution of weight between your lead and trail feet.
So, murph, (if you will allow me to get a little more personal), I need to go to the next detailed element behind the success of BBKIB and that involves the placement and stability of the 'tailbone' or coccyx as it is known anatomically. It plays a MAJOR role in 'perfecting' the use of the BBKIB system and it MUST NOT point towards the lead foot. So either straight down or towards the rear foot is best for the system. Any explanation as to why it works gets complicated and I prefer to leave it to PM if you or any one else is interested.
In conclusion, just place your coccyx straight down and like Nick Watney, you should find your weight distribution such that you will be able to KIB and derive the full advantages of increased distance and reduced dispersion from BBKIB.
Best of luck,
art
Art,
I am Irish and I married an Italian so maybe there is some natural chemistry between the two ethnicities.
Unfortunately, I did not take the video and I do not know Nick.
You are more than welcome to call me Murph, as most of my friends do. Thank you for the help with my KIB problem. I have a quick question though. Are you referrring to position of the coccyx at address?
Murph
I am Irish and I married an Italian so maybe there is some natural chemistry between the two ethnicities.
Unfortunately, I did not take the video and I do not know Nick.
You are more than welcome to call me Murph, as most of my friends do. Thank you for the help with my KIB problem. I have a quick question though. Are you referrring to position of the coccyx at address?
Murph
Dear grs AND BRIAN FOR THIS SITE AND SUCH MEANINGFUL DISCUSSIONS.
Wow, there is so much to say, so let me start by saying I know Dave, as I am sure you have read in previous posts, and very much respect him.
I know, every body reading this can't wait for the "BUT" from the first sentence, but there won't be one since I will directly answer grs with my opinions.
Yes, Dave provides a very good set of OBSERVATIONS , but has NO BASIS of it being an analysis. It could be called 'reverse engineering', but there isn't even any mention of engineering principles.
Here's the BUT, DON'T blame Dave, it's all he and much of his community knows how to do, that is, see what other elite golfers look like and are doing, turning, etc.
What I have been trying to provide in ALL my posts have been science based ANSWERS TO WHY, WHY, WHY ?? And, I feel I am making some progress with the help of MOST of you who frequent this site, and are active enough to ask questions. Yes, it is taking a lot of my time, but having done 5 years of homework, these answers are coming reasonably easy. BUT NOT SO while I was on that wicked Vicodin to minimize the pain of the shingles, so let me digress, then answer the rest of grs's question.
I am being told that if you had chicken pox as a kid, a 60 year old has a 1/3 chance of getting shingles, and a 70 year young has a 1/2 chance. PLEASE, PLEASE, I DO NOT KNOW MANY OF YOU, BUT GET YOUR SHINGLES SHOT, WHATEVER THE COST. I thought it would just be pains in the body, which a macho 240 pound Italian thought he could tolerate. Unfortunately, my mind, whatever it was worth also was SIGNIFICANTLY and negatively affected for several months now necessitating many review cycles for written material, and even delays when speaking from real memory 'blocks'. However, I still stand behind ALL my posts except for the spelling, and Italian-based grammar, and THANK ALL OF YOU FOR READING THIS COMMERCIAL.
IMO, Dave Phillips, in 'analyzing' Nick Watney's swing needed to clearly say that EVERYTHING HE SAID APPLIES TO ONLY THOSE OF US THAT HAVE NICK'S BODY, EXPERIENCE, AND TRAINING. Unfortunately, IMO, that's also true for much of the standard practice line drawing and side by side comparisons TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS WITHOUT first assessing the SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES of the two individuals.
Finally grs, to get selfish about my 'stuff, I believe this video shows NO BBKIB, probably because it pre-dates February 2012 when I started to post on this site, while 'Murphs' video was taken at Riviera probably 18 February 2012.
Regards,
art
Wow, there is so much to say, so let me start by saying I know Dave, as I am sure you have read in previous posts, and very much respect him.
I know, every body reading this can't wait for the "BUT" from the first sentence, but there won't be one since I will directly answer grs with my opinions.
Yes, Dave provides a very good set of OBSERVATIONS , but has NO BASIS of it being an analysis. It could be called 'reverse engineering', but there isn't even any mention of engineering principles.
Here's the BUT, DON'T blame Dave, it's all he and much of his community knows how to do, that is, see what other elite golfers look like and are doing, turning, etc.
What I have been trying to provide in ALL my posts have been science based ANSWERS TO WHY, WHY, WHY ?? And, I feel I am making some progress with the help of MOST of you who frequent this site, and are active enough to ask questions. Yes, it is taking a lot of my time, but having done 5 years of homework, these answers are coming reasonably easy. BUT NOT SO while I was on that wicked Vicodin to minimize the pain of the shingles, so let me digress, then answer the rest of grs's question.
I am being told that if you had chicken pox as a kid, a 60 year old has a 1/3 chance of getting shingles, and a 70 year young has a 1/2 chance. PLEASE, PLEASE, I DO NOT KNOW MANY OF YOU, BUT GET YOUR SHINGLES SHOT, WHATEVER THE COST. I thought it would just be pains in the body, which a macho 240 pound Italian thought he could tolerate. Unfortunately, my mind, whatever it was worth also was SIGNIFICANTLY and negatively affected for several months now necessitating many review cycles for written material, and even delays when speaking from real memory 'blocks'. However, I still stand behind ALL my posts except for the spelling, and Italian-based grammar, and THANK ALL OF YOU FOR READING THIS COMMERCIAL.
IMO, Dave Phillips, in 'analyzing' Nick Watney's swing needed to clearly say that EVERYTHING HE SAID APPLIES TO ONLY THOSE OF US THAT HAVE NICK'S BODY, EXPERIENCE, AND TRAINING. Unfortunately, IMO, that's also true for much of the standard practice line drawing and side by side comparisons TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS WITHOUT first assessing the SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES of the two individuals.
Finally grs, to get selfish about my 'stuff, I believe this video shows NO BBKIB, probably because it pre-dates February 2012 when I started to post on this site, while 'Murphs' video was taken at Riviera probably 18 February 2012.
Regards,
art
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
I am damn sure that Phillips doesn't want any of my videos on his site.
So...
So...
Dear grs,
I am , and I am sure, many other folks registered onto this site or just 'auditing', or monitoring selected topics are THANKFUL for the opportunity to hear what a 'visiting professor' thinks about WHAT Nick Watney is doing with his golf swing.
On the other hand I, as a wanabee, visiting, ex rocket scientist, want a place to COMFORTABLY tell the world WHY Nick Watney is doing what he is doing ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS VIDEO FOLLOWS THE VIDEO AT RIVIERA.
I interpret Brian's much too short but certainly on HIS SITE, proper post, to be stating the unfortunate position I have encountered for the past 5 years trying HARD to share and at the very least, have the RESULTS of my work listened to by professional golf instructors.
Simply stated, I found that most All of them are, as our local city driving range PGA Director 'EXPLAINED TO ME', "Individual Contractors" for which there are 10 at this location who wanted me OFF the property.
A few OPEN meetings with the city council resulted in my being able to share my 'golf science' with anyone, including the professional staff. but to this day, after 3 years, only one of them has taken me up on my offer.
On the other hand, I have and my work has been WELCOMED by Brian, and a few of his close associates that traveled to the west coast, and certainly by the many of you that depend on this site to OPENLY share relevant information.
So IMO, and I hope in Brian and his administrative staff's opinions, OUR LEARNING from other teachers videos should be OK BUT posting OTHER TEACHERS videos for our learning should happen on the other teachers site.
Finally, I very much enjoyed the active discussion we all have had from the TWO Nick Watney videos, so in concluding let me simply say, THANKS grs, Murph, and Brian, and his staff.
Respectfully and appreciatively,
art
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