By George, I think he's got it!!!

[Bill Miracle]

The threads about the shoulders being open at impact got me looking at my videos. At impact on irons, I was square, like at address. I couldn't figure out how to get my shoulder down plane, even though I watched the hell outa BMS #4.

What I did notice is my driver swing videos showed I had opened shoulders and the hip was past square...and I've been spanking that long and straight (or slight draw). I was getting the shoulder drop that was not happening on irons.

Started working with my hips and realized what I was doing. As a result, I started hitting about 1 club longer with all my clubs and the long irons that I was having trouble with were launching!!! So that's what smashing the ball with the pivot really is! My poor upper body...no wonder my shoulder and neck have been aching for the last 3 months.

I really focused on grip and path but no matter what, I couldn't hit right (meaning get the ball to go right). I wasn't drastically hooking the ball....I had what I would call a really strong draw.

Any suggestions on how to straighten this out a bit? The good thing about this swing is the pattern was consistent, which is a first for me on longer clubs. I was getting a 6iron out close to 180 so I am stoked! I'm thinking I need to figure out how to get a bit more axis tilt in.

I used a neutral grip. Worked hard on aligning to the target. I think I can rule out these were the issues.

Playing 9 holes today and can't wait to get out there and wallop some!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The threads about the shoulders being open at impact got me looking at my videos. At impact on irons, I was square, like at address. I couldn't figure out how to get my shoulder down plane, even though I watched the hell outa BMS #4.

What I did notice is my driver swing videos showed I had opened shoulders and the hip was past square...and I've been spanking that long and straight (or slight draw). I was getting the shoulder drop that was not happening on irons.

Started working with my hips and realized what I was doing. As a result, I started hitting about 1 club longer with all my clubs and the long irons that I was having trouble with were launching!!! So that's what smashing the ball with the pivot really is! My poor upper body...no wonder my shoulder and neck have been aching for the last 3 months.

I really focused on grip and path but no matter what, I couldn't hit right (meaning get the ball to go right). I wasn't drastically hooking the ball....I had what I would call a really strong draw.

Any suggestions on how to straighten this out a bit? The good thing about this swing is the pattern was consistent, which is a first for me on longer clubs. I was getting a 6iron out close to 180 so I am stoked! I'm thinking I need to figure out how to get a bit more axis tilt in.

I used a neutral grip. Worked hard on aligning to the target. I think I can rule out these were the issues.

Playing 9 holes today and can't wait to get out there and wallop some!

Sounds to me like you were using your pivot in your driver but using all arms in your irons because they were shorter and it seems like you could do it.

What it also sounds like now is that now that you are making a good pivot behind the ball and moving those hips foward on the downswing there is LITERALLY all this room to "swing out to the right." It never used to be there because you were using all arms and didn't get the shoulder going downplane. So what i find my students doing is, "wow look at all that room. I have to use that and swing over there."

Then they start hitting the push/draw the hook or even a bit thin. So what you have to work on is to keep that butt end of the club pointing more at the plane line going down the target line instead of bending it right of the target line. Use a plane laser or two clubs held end to end to make sure you aren't bending it out to the right too much. It will straighten out a lot. Or a good thing to think about is get that right elbow to fit in your right pocket (like Brian says in BMS #4) AND NOT in front of the pocket. The more you "Feel" like it's going out in front of the pocket the more you're bending that plane line to the right.

I know personally, when i finally learned how to get that right shoulder to go down plane and keep axis tilt i did the same thing, all this room to swing out to right field and i did it. So i just practiced with my plane lasers to have both the shouler go downplane AND THE CLUB and next time at the range i was GOLDEN.

 

[rchang72]

Jim, when you were fixing the swinging too far right field, did you almost feel like your were hitting the outside quadrant of the ball instead of the inside?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim, when you were fixing the swinging too far right field, did you almost feel like your were hitting the outside quadrant of the ball instead of the inside?

Sort of, people misinterpret hitting the "inside aft" part of the ball. That doesn't mean to swing WAY INSIDE-OUT, all that means is to make the face hit the ball on the inside aft.

So how do you do that? It has to be a bit open at impact.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Maybe one day I too will finally learn how to get the right shoulder down plane. I really feel this is the only thing holding me back. I'll get it and for whatever reason I start going back to using all arms again. Thing is I know how to fix it...fiddle drill etc. but I just don't or can't for whatever reason do it. I must be a retard.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Maybe one day I too will finally learn how to get the right shoulder down plane. I really feel this is the only thing holding me back. I'll get it and for whatever reason I start going back to using all arms again. Thing is I know how to fix it...fiddle drill etc. but I just don't or can't for whatever reason do it. I must be a retard.

When you lose it, you probably lose a backswing pivot.

 

[Bill Miracle]

Yep Jim, you nailed it...with one exception...

My shots going left were more club face vs. inside out. I was twisting the club face closed more during the swing.

Yesterday, went to the range for 1/2 hour and 9 holes after that....I just too a 5iron to the range. Smacked it beautifully high and long (180-190). First 3 holes on course....nirvana. Then, I lost my driver swing. Also, my pitching went bad. I think I got the hips working too fast on the downswing. Is that something you run into with students when discovering this?

 

[Bill Miracle]

plane lasers.....

Then they start hitting the push/draw the hook or even a bit thin. So what you have to work on is to keep that butt end of the club pointing more at the plane line going down the target line instead of bending it right of the target line. Use a plane laser or two clubs held end to end to make sure you aren't bending it out to the right too much. It will straighten out a lot. Or a good thing to think about is get that right elbow to fit in your right pocket (like Brian says in BMS #4) AND NOT in front of the pocket. The more you "Feel" like it's going out in front of the pocket the more you're bending that plane line to the right.

I know personally, when i finally learned how to get that right shoulder to go down plane and keep axis tilt i did the same thing, all this room to swing out to right field and i did it. So i just practiced with my plane lasers to have both the shouler go downplane AND THE CLUB and next time at the range i was GOLDEN.

Any suggestions for plane lasers? Would trying to spear the back of the ball with the grip be a good thought? Also, can you shed some light on tracing a plane line better. Is that just the ability to keep the grip end on the line during the swing?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Use a towel "plane board"

The "Manzella Towel Plane Board" is a easy and BETTER way to practice tracing a stright line. You also need the towel for a drill I will try to shoot a little video on shortly.