Can you guys help me out with my swing?

[WVSooner]

I've played for 20 years and still can't break 80. I want to shoot in the 70s next summer so I'm really trying to improve over the winter, I think I can do it with some help.

I am really struggling with taking the club back. I'm not sure if I should start with my arms or shoulders or what? I am afraid the plane of my golf swing is all wrong too. I have no confidence that I am doing anything right.

I have always struggled with a very ugly shot that start low and right and curves even further to the right. I think I was lagging the hosel. I tamed that shot after seeing a video by Brian that mentions high hands at address and then one that mentions aligning the club face slightly closed at address. Those two things with a slight twist away really helped but I still don't have a swing I trust at all.

There are too many images to post here on Brian's site so below is a link to my web page with my swing sequence, both face on and down the line, with some comments by me. Any help would be so appreciated. If you would like to see the swing in action the videos are at the bottom of the page. The camera angles are a little off. I had my phone prompted up in my golf bag and it didn't work so great, but you can get the idea.

http://pages.suddenlink.net/kjpell/Golf/Swing.htm

This is a great site with a number of great posters so I know of no better place to get help. I must ask two things of you all though, no laughing (I was really hesitant to do this) and no comments about the bald spot.

 

[softconsult]

Not a bad swing. Your comments indicate that you know what is wrong, locked right leg, collapsing left arm at the top, sliding on downswing. I am not an instructor, but will offer my opinion.

You indicate that you know you are overdoing the backswing. Question is how to stop yourself.

1. Rotating your head backwards that much is promoting (allowing) you to go back that far. Try keeping your
head in address position and/or simply don't rotate it back as much.

2. Back leg locking. Stop doing that. Not necessary to keep it in address flex, but don't go stiff leg. Same thing
as head. It allows the overdone backswing.

3. Collapsing left arm at end of backswing. Stop doing it. Might correct itself after 1 and 2.

4. I would worry about 1,2 and 3 before I worked on the lateral slide thing.

I would pay more attention to what the actual Instructors say than to what I have said.

Finally, you don't really say how close to 80 you generally shoot. I say this because it looks to me
like your current swing with good putting and short game could break 80.

 

[SteveT]

So you've played golf for 20 years, can't break 80 and you want to play in the 70's within 10 months??!!!

You appear to have a homemade swing; have you ever had formal instruction? I ask because to improve from your current state may require outside objective instruction. You may need to make a commitment to a golf teacher and intensive training and practice.

To change your golfswing after 20 years of embedding may require a complete makeover, and that will make you worse before you get better. Are you prepared to make such a change, or are you just looking for that 'golf tip' that will miraculously propel your game into the 70's?

Btw ... can you play in the 80s on several courses, or are you confined to your home course with which you are fully familiar?

 

[willgolfer]

I've played for 20 years and still can't break 80. I want to shoot in the 70s next summer so I'm really trying to improve over the winter, I think I can do it with some help.

How's your short game?

 

[WVSooner]

How's your short game?

Not great but not terrible. I can save some strokes there but probably not enough to get where I would like to.

So you've played golf for 20 years, can't break 80 and you want to play in the 70's within 10 months??!!!

You appear to have a homemade swing; have you ever had formal instruction? I ask because to improve from your current state may require outside objective instruction. You may need to make a commitment to a golf teacher and intensive training and practice.

To change your golfswing after 20 years of embedding may require a complete makeover, and that will make you worse before you get better. Are you prepared to make such a change, or are you just looking for that 'golf tip' that will miraculously propel your game into the 70's?

Btw ... can you play in the 80s on several courses, or are you confined to your home course with which you are fully familiar?

I've never had a formal lesson and I don't trust a single instructor here in my local area. I have much more confidence in what I get from this forum than I do instructors here. As for changing my golf swing, I've been doing it for 20 years. First I tried what Nicklaus taught. I had a major slice and decided to try to change my swing. Faldo was tearing it up so I tried Leadbetter's instructions. Still had a slice. Then I read 5 Lessons and still had a slice. Then I came to this site and have changed things up again. Now, I have tamed the slice for the most part but am pretty confused on the backswing. I just let the downswing happen. I can shoot in the 80s on about any course I have play. I do occasionally still score in the 90s or so but on those days I blame it on the short game.

Not a bad swing. Your comments indicate that you know what is wrong, locked right leg, collapsing left arm at the top, sliding on downswing. I am not an instructor, but will offer my opinion.

You indicate that you know you are overdoing the backswing. Question is how to stop yourself.

1. Rotating your head backwards that much is promoting (allowing) you to go back that far. Try keeping your
head in address position and/or simply don't rotate it back as much.

2. Back leg locking. Stop doing that. Not necessary to keep it in address flex, but don't go stiff leg. Same thing
as head. It allows the overdone backswing.

3. Collapsing left arm at end of backswing. Stop doing it. Might correct itself after 1 and 2.

4. I would worry about 1,2 and 3 before I worked on the lateral slide thing.

I would pay more attention to what the actual Instructors say than to what I have said.

Finally, you don't really say how close to 80 you generally shoot. I say this because it looks to me
like your current swing with good putting and short game could break 80.

There are 4 things that I just can not fix. 1-Straightening the right leg. 2-Bending the left arm. 3-Having full shoulder turn when my arms are only half way to the top. 4-Being so short of parallel when my shoulders are at their stopping point.

And... I have no idea how to fix my hands being at the right pocket at impact.

My best score ever in an 81. I generally shoot 84-87.

 

[softconsult]

Read what you wrote about what you can't fix. I guess that means you tried on your own
and failed.

I would love to hear what Brian, or the other instructors would say to you about that list of can't do's.
My bet is that any one of them could show you how to pivot correctly. You are turning back, but
not loading into your right leg.

That locked right knee should be correctable. Have a friend kneel behind you out of harms way
and stick the butt of a long iron on the back of your knee to prevent you from locking it. I remember
that as something we did decades ago to keep the right knee stable.

 

[savydan]

IMO, Sooner, the big issue is how your arms get sucked in behind you in the backswing with the right elbow collapsing taking the left elbow with it. You can't recover from where you are at the top. You MUST slide and cast to get back to the ball.

As said, it starts with the "open the door" pivot with a quickly straightening right knee. It's like you are avoiding any coil or stretch in the backswing.

Try to make a full hip and shoulder turn with a stable right knee. Sure it will straighten a little bit.

Then the set of the arms must be more in front of you, rather than collapsing over your neck.

 

[WVSooner]

I would be pretty happy with this position if 1) the right leg was flexed and 2) I wasn't so short of parallel. I just can't seem to do it though.
[media]http://pages.suddenlink.net/kjpell/Golf/Swing_files/image002.jpg[/media]
[media]http://pages.suddenlink.net/kjpell/Golf/Swing_files/image004.jpg[/media]


I keep going with the arms and end up in this terrible position below. Arm bent. knee straight.
[media]http://pages.suddenlink.net/kjpell/Golf/Swing_files/image006.jpg[/media]
[media]http://pages.suddenlink.net/kjpell/Golf/Swing_files/image026.jpg[/media]

If I could get that straight then I could start working on the downswing.

 

[leon]

There are 4 things that I just can not fix. 1-Straightening the right leg. 2-Bending the left arm. 3-Having full shoulder turn when my arms are only half way to the top. 4-Being so short of parallel when my shoulders are at their stopping point.

And... I have no idea how to fix my hands being at the right pocket at impact.

My best score ever in an 81. I generally shoot 84-87.

I would suggest that 3 of your 4 points are really the same thing (and in my opinion aren't that much of a problem). Your left arm bends because your shoulder turn is finished and its the only way to get your hands up there unless you are really flexible (which I'm guessing you're not). You look close to being on plane for how far back you are in the first picture, so I wouldn't worry too much about getting to parallel at the top. It works for Anthony Kim, right?

I think your overswing of the arms is one reason they only get back to your right pocket at impact, with the other being that your right pocket is really far forward due to a big hip slide.

And I have no idea about the right leg. Maybe its just your natural move after 20 years of doing it that way?

On second thoughts, doesn't one of Brian's patterns have a straightening of the right leg in the backswing (is it soft draw? - I'd have to re-watch them to see which one, and of course why). I guess my point is that it might not be such a bad thing - for your particular swing. But one of the instructors would have to chime in on that.

 

[SteveT]

I would love to hear what Brian, or the other instructors would say to you about that list of can't do's.
My bet is that any one of them could show you how to pivot correctly. You are turning back, but
not loading into your right leg.

That locked right knee should be correctable. Have a friend kneel behind you out of harms way
and stick the butt of a long iron on the back of your knee to prevent you from locking it. I remember
that as something we did decades ago to keep the right knee stable.

WVSooner ... DANGER ... DO NOT TRY THIS STUPIDITY!!!

Do not let anybody restrain your right knee in your backswing as suggested because you could injure your knee joint. If you are slightly bow-legged or knock-kneed, such restraint can be crippling to the knee joint meniscii and cartilage, as well as stiff hip joints ... believe it..!!!!

This kind of bad and dangerous advice only reflects the ignorance from decades ago, and now being recklessly offered without considering the consequences. It's almost criminal.

Not only that, Brian's name is carelessly invoked and then stupid advice is being offered. Some people just can't stop spewing their ignorance from the past .. like TGM..

 

[softconsult]

You know, SteveT, you are some sort of weirdo.

What is with the ALL CAPS shouting? Do you not read well, or is it
a comprehension problem?

I simply said I would be interested in hearing from the instructors.
Which in your testy world is invoking Brian's name. This is Brian's forum.
He has an academy of instructors. Other professional instructors post here.
I, and others, like hearing their opinions.

Then you freak out about the horrible dangers of keeping the knee stable.
If you watch the tour at all, you will see lots, and lots of stable rear knees.
The idea was to try to tone it down, and avoid the lock up. Please notice that
what I said was, "to prevent locking the knee". That doesn't mean preventing the
knee from moving backward at all. This guy isn't loading into his rear leg. Loading
requires creating some stresses in the hip and knee. Dangerous? I suppose, but
a whole lot of golfers somehow manage to survive the rigors of a proper pivot.

You are the expert. So specifically, what would you advise on this knee topic?
Perhaps, you think this locked kneed pivot is just fine. Would that be a yes or a no?
Don't come back with question avoidance. Tell us your prescription for help the original poster and
please don't say longer clubs, less clubhead speed, and less coil.

Part of the reason people, including me, are so irritated by you is that you use such insulting
terms. Examples are OBESITY, RIDICULOUS, IGNORANCE. Wonder whether you would do that in person?
Do you have any friends? Do you talk to them like this? Have they ever assaulted you? They probably
elect to just avoid the hell out of you.

 

[SteveT]

You know, SteveT, you are ... blahblahblah ... the hell out of you.

You should wait for your troll friends greenfree and footwedge to bail you out from your mire ... and then you can do a triangular circle jerk supporting each other. You losers started trolling and I won't concede to you because all of you are fringe ignorant.

 

[softconsult]

Don't know your background. Politics perhaps?
You are incapable of actually answering a question.
Sadly predictable.

The term "Whacka Mole" pops into my head.

 

[SteveT]

Don't know your background. Politics perhaps?
You are incapable of actually answering a question.
Sadly predictable.

The term "Whacka Mole" pops into my head.

Don't hurt yourself ... and stop talking to yourself about yourself. pprrffttt...

 

[willgolfer]

Some serious thread crapping going on here.

 

[greenfree]

You should wait for your troll friends greenfree and footwedge to bail you out from your mire ... and then you can do a triangular circle jerk supporting each other. You losers started trolling and I won't concede to you because all of you are fringe ignorant.

Is that a scientific term " triangular circle jerk" or is that a description of yourself? Yes, Steve T it is a conspiracy between us trolls to make you concede that you are indeed an a....hole of the biggest kind, not that we even have to, as you prove it constantly....LOL.

 

[golfdad]

since the OP is wearing loose pants, it is not easy to accurately define his knee angle. suffices it to say, it is more toward extension than flexion.

on that, i would like to add 2 cents:

to me at least, "straightening the knee a little" is not the same as to have the knee straightened.

the former means the knee is still in flexion, but now less flexed, thus more extended. in other words, you stand up more.

the latter means the knee has completely extended, to the anatomical limit.

may be i am naive or ignorant. when the knee is completely extended, it is not athletic. a slightly flexed knee, however, is.

the point of contention or confusion here, i think, is on the degree of this "slightly flexed knee".

 

[SteveT]

Is that a scientific term " triangular circle jerk" or is that a description of yourself? Yes, Steve T it is a conspiracy between us trolls to make you concede that you are indeed an a....hole of the biggest kind, not that we even have to, as you prove it constantly....LOL.

Rub-a-dub-dub
Three asshats in a tub
And who do you think they be?
footwedge and softconsult
and foulmouth greenfree
Turn them out, idiots all three!!!
​

 

[greenfree]

Rub-a-dub-dub
Three asshats in a tub
And who do you think they be?
footwedge and softconsult
and foulmouth greenfree
Turn them out, idiots all three!!!
​

Originally Posted by greenfree
Is that a scientific term " triangular circle jerk" or is that a description of yourself? Yes, Steve T it is a conspiracy between us trolls to make you concede that you are indeed an a....hole of the biggest kind, not that we even have to, as you prove it constantly....LOL.






I rest my case. your easy peasy...lol.

 

[ZAP]

I would like to see some video but here is my opinion. Which might be worth what you pay for it. lol.

1. I would not mind seeing you do a little back and forth drill if only to soften up your knees and help with sequencing.
2. A little ladder drill might be in order to help you learn to control low point better. By the looks of the pictures you have little feel for where you are going to hit the ground. And if you have no idea where you are going to hit the ground how do you know how to address the ball.

The camera angles seem to skew some stuff too. There is a great thread about camera angles somewhere on here.