Can you imagine?

[Brian Manzella]

Tiger Woods sure does have a nice looking pivot, doesn't he?

In fact, it is downright A+

Would you—if you were a teacher—teach ANYTHING drastically different than what Tiger is doing?

Don't you like like his pivot? I think it is as near perfect as ever done.

I love his hands, lag loading, delivery line, VISUALLY FLAT left left at the top.

So much to love.

So I ask again>

Would you—if you were a teacher—teach ANYTHING drastically different than what Tiger is doing?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Get him to swing more left and get rid of that whacky finish swivel and explain to him why the ball REALLY goes right.

 

[Toolish]

How do you feel about the head movement down on transition and into the downswing?

That is the only thing I have ever seen anybody have an issue with pivot wise.

 

[tongzilla]

In my opinion, Tiger's finish swivel in his real swings (not practice swings) are better than 7/8 years ago in the sense that his left wrist is sustained flat much longer into the follow through.

I would point out to Tiger that he is overcommiting his pivot when using his driver sometimes.

 

[Brian Manzella]

No, no, no.

I am sorry.

I wasn't clear:

Here is the Question:

"Would you—if you were a teacher—teach OTHER STUDENTS ANYTHING drastically different than what Tiger is doing?"

Like for instance a grip like Ed Fiori.

 

[Bill Miracle]

Not a teacher here but...

I am sorry.

I wasn't clear:

Here is the Question:

"Would you—if you were a teacher—teach OTHER STUDENTS ANYTHING drastically different than what Tiger is doing?"

Like for instance a grip like Ed Fiori.

what if the student was physically incapable of pivoting like Tiger? That would be a reason I would not.

Otherwise, your pivot works extremely well for me...when I do it (meaning when I don't slip back into my old habits)

 

[Dobber]

I agree with Bill here and also using one of Brian's comments, "Teach them what they need to know." If a certain individual came to me (although not a teacher) and had a mastery of the 3 Imperatives, although his pivot was 1/2 as good as Tiger's, I would look at things that could make his swing a bit more precise, whether it focused on the pivot or not.

If changing his pivot also caused other compensations that would not be good for the long haul...leave it along and focus on the components that will make him more precise.

Dobber

 

[birdie_man]

No way in hell I would touch Tiger's pivot...

His whole swing is pretty "orthodox" as u'd say.

Although some ppl would PROBABLY point out that:

-he "bobs"
-he "sways"
-"his stroke is not 100% 'Geometrically optimal' (my term) because he does not take the club (with the right forearm) straight up and down the TSP" (with his head centered in his stance on all shots including driver)

...

What I think (personally) is.....

-Tiger bobs....ok- so does/did Hogan, Moe Norman, Lee Trevino, etc. So big deal I guess.

-He sways....well.....kinda......but big deal. He still pivots around a center.....the center just ain't his head (it's the base of his neck)...AND his head isn't between his feet on all shots. (maybe for a wedge or pitch shot with his weight forward) Lots of ppl have had lateral head movement and hit it as good as possible.

-He doesn't take it straight up and down the TSP..........well....see any player ever.....it's not a requirement to hit it as good as anyone ever has.

...

One thing I always think....is....

If most of the best players ever (and really...Double Shifts and heads that "bob" and "sway" slightly are pretty common...) can do this....

In my mind that must mean one of two things (depending on what side of "all this" you fall on)....

1. Either they are just superior athletes with superior natural golfing ability and they have lots of room for improvement....

....i.e. they are where they are (at the top) despite of what they do.

2. They are where they are (at the top) not despite of these things but because of them.

No?

 

[birdie_man]

BTW who is Ed Fiori? I'm guessing very strong grip?

 

[Damon Lucas]

Yes Brian, yes I would!

Much as I love Tiger's everything, to teach everybody that same swing is saying that there is one model and then you are no better off than Hardy, TGM pure swing or pure hit teachers, or Model Golf or any other method.

If what Tiger does would work for THAT player, great...otherwise ...

Jim, why does Tiger 'have' to swing more left?
Maybe he likes his the ball flights his swing produces? Maybe he already does, and the camera angles are misleading? Maybe his record suggests some of us could learn more from him,than he could from us and from things that he has worked out?
Did you know that he has worked with subliminal forms of mental training?
What else does he do that we don't know about????

Damon

 

[birdie_man]

What else does he do that we don't know about????

(could be LOTS IMO....mental stuff....or then again it could be nothing spectacular.....prolly will never know)

 

[shootin4par]

Did you know that he has worked with subliminal forms of mental training?
What else does he do that we don't know about????

think like tiger, raising the bar, and stevies book all go into detail about this. Tiger is Tiger because of his MIND, not his body.
many players out there have the athletic ability, hand eye coordination, etc.... but only one has the mind, that is why he dominates.

 

[Sonic_Doom]

1. Either they are just superior athletes with superior natural golfing ability and they have lots of room for improvement....

....i.e. they are where they are (at the top) despite of what they do.

Insert nutshell here...

Remember Nike sand wedge commercial?

They have superior ability, they just happened to apply it to golf (not sure theres lots of room for improvement though).

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim, why does Tiger 'have' to swing more left?
Maybe he likes his the ball flights his swing produces? Maybe he already does, and the camera angles are misleading? Maybe his record suggests some of us could learn more from him,than he could from us and from things that he has worked out?
Did you know that he has worked with subliminal forms of mental training?
What else does he do that we don't know about????

Damon

Tiger likes to try and swing more "down the line" than he really has too. He has been quoted on this and says it adds a bit more power. This leads to part of his "rights" and if he would just let it move a bit more left sooner he wouldn't miss as far right as he does at times.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Jim....Do you agree that 'swinging down the line' adds power? If that is the case, nothing wrong with an emphasis on power, especially if you can win British Opens with a 2 iron.

I'd be willing to guess that he is aware of the swinging to the left 'fix', and I'm guessing that he would try to do it 'some' to maintain and neutralise, but likes the ball flights that his current swing produces.

What do you think is his MAJOR technical strength? You can't take his pivot, Brian has already taken that one

Cheers,
Damon

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim....Do you agree that 'swinging down the line' adds power? If that is the case, nothing wrong with an emphasis on power, especially if you can win British Opens with a 2 iron.

No, i don't think it adds power, i think it just merely delofts the club a bit more which will make the ball go farther and make you THINK it adds power because by swinging more "down the line" you are effect bending the plane line to the right which delofts the face and will make the ball go further.

I'd be willing to guess that he is aware of the swinging to the left 'fix', and I'm guessing that he would try to do it 'some' to maintain and neutralise, but likes the ball flights that his current swing produces.

Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, but he always says he "lost the ball right" because he always got stuck. Now that is a legitimate cause but it wasn't his main cause imo, it was just a matter of putting a hitter's downswing on a swinger's backswing. Leads to angled hinging and with his tendency to swing a bit to the right, ball goes right. It's not magic

What do you think is his MAJOR technical strength? You can't take his pivot, Brian has already taken that one

I would say clubface control. There are not many people on tour that play as many shots as tiger does except maybe corey pavin and he is more old school anyway.

Cheers,
Damon[/QUOTE]