Carry vs OTT

[aa034321]

Not sure if I understand this correctly...but if "carry" equals the hands moving toward the target line at transition/startdown...how do we distinguish this from "over the top"?

If a player wants to build a draw swing...isn't "carry" a predisposition to hitting a cut and to be avoided?

Sorry if I've completely misunderstood.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I think it stems to the definition of over the top; personally to me, that term should create a new definition to something along the lines of a downswing that swings down a plane above the backswing plane.

The only thing that matters is the d-plane you create. You could carry or come over it a bit and still hit a push draw depending on where your backswing ended.

Hope that helps.

 

[wulsy]

Over the top of what? This is the question no one who talks about coming OTT ever asks themselves. That's why they remain confused, until they come to the site of the Bman and hear a great answer from the JimBob.

BTW, can anyone tell me how to contain my disdain for golf coaches who talk shyte about the golf swing and take money for it, and my disdain for the donkeys who take the lessons. I'm becoming a bit unbearable these days. Please help.

 

[aa034321]

I think it stems to the definition of over the top; personally to me, that term should create a new definition to something along the lines of a downswing that swings down a plane above the backswing plane.

The only thing that matters is the d-plane you create. You could carry or come over it a bit and still hit a push draw depending on where your backswing ended.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the response Jim. I think that clarifies a misunderstanding and I get that it's possible to play a push draw while swinging down above the backswing plane. I guess where I struggle with the concept is that so few skilled players appear to carry their hands out toward the target line during transition and instead move them down vertically.

If it's possible to play a push draw while swinging down above the backswing plane, what is the advantage or disadvantage of doing so? Is it in any way related to physical factors like flexibility? I see a tendency in some players to struggle more with fat shots if they don't "carry" than others. Just trying to understand the difference.

And when you say it depends on the backswing, are you talking about how "deep" the hands get at the top?

Thanks!

 

[DCgolf]

Over the top of what? This is the question no one who talks about coming OTT ever asks themselves. That's why they remain confused, until they come to the site of the Bman and hear a great answer from the JimBob.

BTW, can anyone tell me how to contain my disdain for golf coaches who talk shyte about the golf swing and take money for it, and my disdain for the donkeys who take the lessons. I'm becoming a bit unbearable these days. Please help.

It's prepositional phrases like OTT that have dug a communication hole so large that many of our students think we're talking in tongues. Over and under mean NOTHING to the great majority, and even for the few who do understand, they are still misleading at best. Words like left, right , steep etc are more descriptive and more accurate. Wulsy as for the masses being asses and led by the blind, I have simply resigned myself to the reality of it. It's less depressing.

 

[OLIVER1]

And aa, sorry if this is a teeny-weeny threadjack, but how can hands come down vertically i.e. not over the top, without splaying the right elbow and trapping it behind the body?

 

[Erik_K]

And aa, sorry if this is a teeny-weeny threadjack, but how can hands come down vertically i.e. not over the top, without splaying the right elbow and trapping it behind the body?

lowbackmodel on Vimeo

The hands may not move down at a 90 degree angle to the ground, but the path (of the hands) can be rather 'steep'.

Erik

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Over the top of what? This is the question no one who talks about coming OTT ever asks themselves. That's why they remain confused, until they come to the site of the Bman and hear a great answer from the JimBob.

BTW, can anyone tell me how to contain my disdain for golf coaches who talk shyte about the golf swing and take money for it, and my disdain for the donkeys who take the lessons. I'm becoming a bit unbearable these days. Please help.

I am in full support of your disdain and will tell you nothing to contain it. Hate on my friend!

 

[OLIVER1]

lowbackmodel on Vimeo

The hands may not move down at a 90 degree angle to the ground, but the path (of the hands) can be rather 'steep'.

Erik

ErikK Thank you for that. Very much appreciated

 

[Erik_K]

ErikK Thank you for that. Very much appreciated

No problem.

 

[dschultz6072]

Over the top of what? This is the question no one who talks about coming OTT ever asks themselves. That's why they remain confused, until they come to the site of the Bman and hear a great answer from the JimBob.

BTW, can anyone tell me how to contain my disdain for golf coaches who talk shyte about the golf swing and take money for it, and my disdain for the donkeys who take the lessons. I'm becoming a bit unbearable these days. Please help.

My teacher tells me over the top is when your divot points left.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Thanks for the response Jim. I think that clarifies a misunderstanding and I get that it's possible to play a push draw while swinging down above the backswing plane. I guess where I struggle with the concept is that so few skilled players appear to carry their hands out toward the target line during transition and instead move them down vertically.

there are many more than you think, a quick off the head example would be kj choi

If it's possible to play a push draw while swinging down above the backswing plane, what is the advantage or disadvantage of doing so? Is it in any way related to physical factors like flexibility? I see a tendency in some players to struggle more with fat shots if they don't "carry" than others. Just trying to understand the difference.

i was just making an example to explain that OTT doesn't immediately mean fade.

And when you say it depends on the backswing, are you talking about how "deep" the hands get at the top?

Thanks!

how far in from the ball the hands get; to still hit a push draw with some carry you'd probably have some really deep hands with a lower arm plane so when you carried it back to a better downswing plane you still had the ability to swing right enough to hit a push draw.

 

[wulsy]

I am in full support of your disdain and will tell you nothing to contain it. Hate on my friend!

Thanks bud. I think I'll start playing some tournaments again so that I don't have to be exposed to the mega donkey instructor/pupil scenario. It's wearing me down.

Heck, I'd rather listen to an MTD bitching about another MTD all day long than have to watch a full of shyte instructor spouting his inane crap.

 

[Cloran]

Not sure if I understand this correctly...but if "carry" equals the hands moving toward the target line at transition/startdown...how do we distinguish this from "over the top"?

If a player wants to build a draw swing...isn't "carry" a predisposition to hitting a cut and to be avoided?

Sorry if I've completely misunderstood.

I resemble these remarks.

For years I struggled with what I viewed as a poor OTT move, and I tried everything I could to fix it. It got to the point that I had to stop filming my swing because I'd get so frustrated watching the move in slow motion.

What finally set me free? The D-Plane as I learned it here.

Now I know how/why I hit push-draws despite my downswing path moving above my backswing path. What a liberating feeling.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Don't be misled by where YOU think the downswing begins. The hand path could be moving out towards the target line and the player may have not truly started down. And the complete opposite may be true. A player like price, faldo or Sergio may LOOK like they are laying the club off or even moving their hands backwards starting down, but they may FEEL like its still part of the backswing.

Carry is positioning the hand path to give the most direct line through impact and really represents the end of the backswing before torque is placed on the grip end. Over the top is when the clubhead is released too early coupled with an overly horizontal hand path which places the clubhead path in a position of no return.

 

[aa034321]

I resemble these remarks.

For years I struggled with what I viewed as a poor OTT move, and I tried everything I could to fix it. It got to the point that I had to stop filming my swing because I'd get so frustrated watching the move in slow motion.

What finally set me free? The D-Plane as I learned it here.

Now I know how/why I hit push-draws despite my downswing path moving above my backswing path. What a liberating feeling.

I hear ya. The last piece of the puzzle seems to be how the club path can still be slightly in to out when it looks and feels as if the club is swinging out to in.

If I use the NHA pattern...I will hit a fade or a straight left shot. Not sure I've experienced the push draw with that pattern yet, but I believe it exists.