Clubface control

[galanga]

I have a reasonably grooved swing but am having a heck of a time feeling and attaining club face control and it is driving me nuts.

I have read TGM several times and Yoda's great post on hinging and have Brian's videos on the way, but would like some insight from you. I believe I understand horizontal, vertical and angled hinging, but having trouble putting it into a grooved swing.

My club face ranges from closed several degrees to wide open at impact. My path to the ball does not vary much - usually inside 2 degrees. I am a feel player. However, I am clearly not "feeling" the club face control - the vertical flat left wrist - this is my biggest hurdle.

I suspect that I tend towards angled hinging as I tend towards a closing and layed back club face. I think I subconsiously manipulate the face to try and get square and fail on the bad days. It seems as if horizontal hinging would be more effective on most shots and produce a tight draw.

How do you get this "feel" over to a student or friend you are helping? Drills? Exercises? Exorcisms? How to go from book learning to effective swings in the hunt.

Thanks for the help.

 

[rwh]

This is how Holenone taught it to us. Make slow, gentle continuous swings using the left arm only. These will be short swings with the club never getting above horizontal. Keeping the Left Wrist absolutely Flat, you will turn the wrist so as to perform each of the Hinging Actions.

For horizontal hinging, you will finish with the toe of clubhead pointing at the target line (i.e., the leading edge of the blade is running the same direction as your plane line). It looks like this:

|| (the line on the left represents the leading edge and the line on the right represents the plane line)

The feeling associated with Horizontal Hinging is a "Full Roll" of the wrist.


For Angled Hinging, you will finish with the toe of clubhead pointing 45 degrees to the left of the plane line. It looks like this:

\|
The feeling associated with Angled Hinging is "No Roll" of the wrist.

For Vertical Hinging, you will end with the leading edge at 90 degrees to the plane line with the clubface pointing up toward the sky. It looks like this:

-|

The feeling associated with Vertical Hinging is a "Reverse Roll" of the wrist.

Back and forth. Flat left wrist. Full Roll, No Roll, Reverse Roll.

A great drill Holenone suggested is to make 3 or 4 passes over the top of a ball to confirm correct Action and then, without breaking rhythm, hit the ball on the next pass.

Holenone really stresses the importance of maintaining Rhythm; i.e., you never lose the straight line relationship of the left arm and clubshaft during the drill.

I hope this helps.

 

[matt]

A couple of points to add to rwh:

For Horizontal Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing along the plane line. This doesn't mean that it's running parallel to the plane line.

For Angled Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing across the plane line - about at 45 degrees like he stated.

For Vertical Hinging, the leading edge is perpendicular to the plane line and the face had laid back. This means the face is now not only perpendicular to the plane line but also facing the sky much more than with a Horizontal Hinge.

 

[nevermind]

would angled hinging not look more like this / ?

thanks for the drill rwh. its a shame Yoda's hinging threads petered out before lifting all the fog

 

[matt]

Angled hinging would look like this:

_______ plane line
\ clubface

 

[nevermind]

thankyou, thats what I thought

 

[rwh]

quote:Originally posted by matt

A couple of points to add to rwh:

For Horizontal Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing along the plane line. This doesn't mean that it's running parallel to the plane line.

For Angled Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing across the plane line - about at 45 degrees like he stated.

For Vertical Hinging, the leading edge is perpendicular to the plane line and the face had laid back. This means the face is now not only perpendicular to the plane line but also facing the sky much more than with a Horizontal Hinge.

Good points, Matt.

 

[Ringer]

I tell my students all the time.. Square the forearms to the target. Let the wrists relax.. so long as you have a well balanced "pivot" the release and impact will happen properly.

(Really stretching to use more TGM verbage)

 

[cdog]

Steve, explain square the forearms, and the way you get your students to practice this please.

 

[galanga]

Thanks for the tips. Didn't read these before my range session yesterday. I just imagined the hinge in my shoulder and did some practice swings somewhat like suggested. Hit some solid balls but a lot of pulls - this is a congenital problem I have of clearing to early and hard and I am working on it.

Point of clarification needed: For horizontal hinging the pin that makes the hinge is parallel to my spine angle when in my set-up. It is not perpendicular to the ground. Right? I am assuming that the hinging geometry is relative to the orientation of set-up and not to the absolutes of horizon and approximated by the ground.

 

[galanga]

Addendum: I also altered my address to more standard fix with the clubface open progressively with longer clubs. Felt amazingly good and hit some nice tight draws. I believe I am correct that horizontal hinging requires an open face due to the always closing nature of the hinge. I think the fact that it worked indicated a positive that I am starting to horizontally hinge.

Historically I set up with the face square or slightly closed, likely subconsiously making adjustments for angled hinging on full shots. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

I am excited by this. Yoda's discussion on hinging and my subsequent, believed, understanding of hinging has open a door into understanding TGM for me. I reread much of TGM last night, as it relates to swinging patterns, and it all started making more sense. Pretty neat stuff.

I was mixing hitting components with swinging although I am a natural swinger. For example, I was using angled hinging and a punching motion quite often with all the other swing components.

And my pro's insistence on a flat left wrist and bent right is making sense now.

Thanks.

 

[Ringer]

Well it starts with address cdog. The natural grip that I prefer to see allows for the forearms to be directly opposing each other. Often I ask folks to just clap their hands out in front of them. When you clap, the topline of your forearms face the sky... and the inside part of your forearms face each other. If you clap your hands in front of you, then rotate your left over your right, you will find yourself in a "Strong grip" position if you were to grip the club in this manner.

Now go back to a neutral postion and take a club in your hands. Make sure that your hands are in the Level postion (thumbs and forearms on the same plane, not cocked). The toe of the club should point to the sky as well as the topline of both your forearms. When you rotate your left arm over the right, what happens to the clubface? Now rotate your right forearm over your left. Again the clubface rotates with the forearms.

The magic of the right arm here for all you TGM groupies..

Remember how at impact your right arm is level to the sweet spot plane? Well, you've just figured out how a rotation of your right forearm will effect the clubface. Not just the clubhead. woooooo.... The left forearm has the same type of relationship with the clubface.

Now, you could put the responsiblity on the hands for this, just as easily. You cannot rotate your forearm without effecting the hand.. and you cannot rotate the hand without using the forearm. The two are directly linked.

The practice of this is much more difficult. I do have a drill which helps to learn the process, but is not intented for specifically this move. http://gzi.mine.nu:65433/golf/onlinefullswing.htm#_Fix_Your_Path_With_2_Clubs

Usually the knowledge itself with an awareness of it will change the swinging motion by itself rendering a drill pointless.

 

[holenone]

quote:Originally posted by rwh

quote:Originally posted by matt

A couple of points to add to rwh:

For Horizontal Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing along the plane line. This doesn't mean that it's running parallel to the plane line.

For Angled Hinging, the clubhead's leading edge will be pointing across the plane line - about at 45 degrees like he stated.

For Vertical Hinging, the leading edge is perpendicular to the plane line and the face had laid back. This means the face is now not only perpendicular to the plane line but also facing the sky much more than with a Horizontal Hinge.

Good points, Matt.

As Matt has stated with regards to Horizontal Hinging, the Toe of the Club will point along the Plane Line at the end of the Follow-Through (the Both Arms Straight position). If the Leading Edge of the Clubface is running parallel to the Plane Line, then the Left Wrist has Swiveled prematurely, and this puts the Swingle of the Flail out of line with its Handle just as much as any other form of Throwaway (2-G).

 

[BranitotoBict]

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