Clubfitters/Design gurus?

[birly-shirly]

This topic came up on another thread and I thought it was interesting in its own right.

The issue was "high launch, low spin" shafts in irons - and I wanted to know how these work and what changes in the impact conditions to achieve this.

The variables that seem relevant to me are dynamic loft and spin loft. I can see how an increase in dynamic loft will give a higher launch. But I would have expected a reduction in spin to be the result of less spin loft.

I understand how you can simultaneously raise the dynamic loft whilst reducing spin loft if you're hitting a driver off a tee and can swing a lower lofted clubhead on an upward angle of attack (I understand that Brian can also teach an upward AoA with reduced spin loft without a club change).

But I'm struggling to understand how a change of iron shaft can both raise the launch angle and reduce spin.

Can anyone explain this?

 

[mjstrong]

You know what? This is a great question that I've always thought about, but never thought to ask about. I'm interested to hear somebody explain it.

 

[mgranato]

I've seen Bigfoot, but never seen the "high launch low spin" animal.

 

[RVArya]

I have seen a "High launch, Low spin Club Head" but never in a shaft. Doesn't look feasible

 

[savydan]

Gettin' the popcorn.

 

[mgranato]

I have seen a "High launch, Low spin Club Head" but never in a shaft. Doesn't look feasible

Yep, the things that make a shaft higher launching make it higher spinning.

The term itself is too vague - higher launching than what, lower spinning than what?

 

[birly-shirly]

Thanks for the input guys. I was sufficiently intrigued to go to the PX website and discover that the shaft also benefits from "Longer taper rates result[ing] in more energy transfer to the ball"

Do you think this would transform my ball-striking, or is it just one of those things that is nice to have working for you in the clutch?

 

[JonWil]

Gettin' the popcorn.

 

[birdie_man]

Yep, the things that make a shaft higher launching make it higher spinning.

The term itself is too vague - higher launching than what, lower spinning than what?

What should you look for if you are looking for a certain ballflight then mg?

Kickpoint?

Overall stiffness?

Torque?

What's the deal with spining? (Brian said it was "the cat's rear end" a while ago, I believe)

 

[Virtuoso]

This topic came up on another thread and I thought it was interesting in its own right.

The issue was "high launch, low spin" shafts in irons - and I wanted to know how these work and what changes in the impact conditions to achieve this.

The variables that seem relevant to me are dynamic loft and spin loft. I can see how an increase in dynamic loft will give a higher launch. But I would have expected a reduction in spin to be the result of less spin loft.

I understand how you can simultaneously raise the dynamic loft whilst reducing spin loft if you're hitting a driver off a tee and can swing a lower lofted clubhead on an upward angle of attack (I understand that Brian can also teach an upward AoA with reduced spin loft without a club change).

But I'm struggling to understand how a change of iron shaft can both raise the launch angle and reduce spin.

Can anyone explain this?

Hey Birly-shirly, as I'm sure you already suspect, there is no such thing as a high launch, low spin shaft.

 

[birly-shirly]

"suspect" is a fair word. Let's just say that my suspicions are hardening as a result of this thread...

 

[mgranato]

What should you look for if you are looking for a certain ballflight then mg?

So much of it depends on what the golfer brings to the fitting. One very common scenario I see is the golfer with a 100 mph swing, a 3-4 degree negative attack angle, plays a 9* driver, and backs the shaft up through the ball. He's got 4k of backspin and doesn't like his trajectory - he wants a HL/LS shaft to fix his driving. With these sorts or dynamics, the fitter/player are handicapped. If there's no change in swing, you wont really have the option of addressing both the launch and spin issues. On the other hand, a golfer with good impact dynamics can really fine tune both with head/shaft tweaks.

Kickpoint?

Think in terms of bend profile rather than kickpoint. Divide the shaft into 3 sections - butt, middle, and tip. You can get varying stiffness levels in all three sections in the same shaft in the same overall flex. The right combination in the 3 sections based on a couple key swing elements will give you a good fitting shaft. Shafts don't have a kickpoint, they bend and flex all over.

Overall stiffness?

That's kind of a vague starting point. The letter flexes on shafts, across all makes and models, don't mean a heck of a lot. One company's "model 1" stiff flex will/can be another company's reg flex. Going back to bend profile is the better option, IMO.

Torque?

Only necessary in special cases. If the bend profile and overall flex are good, the torque is going to be good 95% of the time also.

What's the deal with spining? (Brian said it was "the cat's rear end" a while ago, I believe)

Some say it matters, some say it doesn't. It has never been none to be detrimental, so I guess it comes down to preference. Shafts do have an orientation or flow - the question is whether or not you think it matters or makes a big enough influence. I don't know that term - is that like the horse's arse or the bees knees?