Clubhead Speed discussion
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Brian Manzella
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"it's all about BALL speed."
How do you increase clubhead speed?
In the 25 years I have taught golf, there is one constant with my students, almost all of my long-term students became very long hitters.
When I was teaching the talented ones a lot of trigger delay, I figured that must be it. I also taught everyone who could to have the club “up” their left arm for as long as possible. I taught that might have something to do with it.
But, as I write this, I have watch the successes of my first two students who have been taught using the MANZELLA MATRIX for a long period of time with next to zero attempt to max out any part of their swings—but one.
And that part is STILL being taught by be in nearly the same way, at least from a power production standpoint.
The Pivot.
Now you have NO CHANCE AT ALL to pivot correctly if you can’t control the clubface, but once you can control the clubface, distance is ALL ABOUT the pivot.
You want distance?
Learn to Pivot Perfectly—for you.
How do you increase clubhead speed?
In the 25 years I have taught golf, there is one constant with my students, almost all of my long-term students became very long hitters.
When I was teaching the talented ones a lot of trigger delay, I figured that must be it. I also taught everyone who could to have the club “up” their left arm for as long as possible. I taught that might have something to do with it.
But, as I write this, I have watch the successes of my first two students who have been taught using the MANZELLA MATRIX for a long period of time with next to zero attempt to max out any part of their swings—but one.
And that part is STILL being taught by be in nearly the same way, at least from a power production standpoint.
The Pivot.
Now you have NO CHANCE AT ALL to pivot correctly if you can’t control the clubface, but once you can control the clubface, distance is ALL ABOUT the pivot.
You want distance?
Learn to Pivot Perfectly—for you.
mandrin
New
Optimum clubhead speed
Keeping the club “up” the left arm for as long as possible implies a motion of the hands through impact with does not fit with optimum release.
I just happen to see today a down the line view (swing vision) of Tiger using an iron. His hands remained remarkable stationary during release.
Brian,
Keeping the club “up” the left arm for as long as possible implies a motion of the hands through impact with does not fit with optimum release.
I just happen to see today a down the line view (swing vision) of Tiger using an iron. His hands remained remarkable stationary during release.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Well...
Mandrin.
This past winter, doing the research I always do, I performed a very simple test.
I made a swing where I allowed the club to catch my left arm and pass it at will. I made a few until video proved impact to be "ideal" and the pass to be swift and great. This was all confirmed on a $40,000 Titleist 3-D system.
I made another swing where I allowed the club to catch my left arm and STAY UP THAT ARM until the finish. This was all confirmed on the same $40,000 Titleist 3-D system.
I was SURE that the first attempt would produce more clubhead speed.
It did not!
I simply figured out that the WAY I "keep the club up my left arm" was simply by applying some "down-arch" from the left wrist itself, not slowing the club down at all.
Something math alone would never have deduced.
Mandrin.
This past winter, doing the research I always do, I performed a very simple test.
I made a swing where I allowed the club to catch my left arm and pass it at will. I made a few until video proved impact to be "ideal" and the pass to be swift and great. This was all confirmed on a $40,000 Titleist 3-D system.
This is something I practiced at length after realizing how correct you here about the fultility of "resisting deceleration."
I made another swing where I allowed the club to catch my left arm and STAY UP THAT ARM until the finish. This was all confirmed on the same $40,000 Titleist 3-D system.
I was SURE that the first attempt would produce more clubhead speed.
It did not!
I simply figured out that the WAY I "keep the club up my left arm" was simply by applying some "down-arch" from the left wrist itself, not slowing the club down at all.
Something math alone would never have deduced.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
mandrin
New
Brian,
This is quite interesting since this ‘keeping the lead arm up the shaft as long as possible’, is quite peculiar.
You have been watching many pros over the years have you seen anyone who has this particular move in a real swing?
Don’t you agree that from the point of view of kinetic chain that the most efficient swing is where the arms can give up most of their energy hence stop almost at impact?
However there is a distinction to be made between the fastest possible swing and the most efficient swing, which is not quite the same.
However I agree, first and foremost, thoughtful experimenting rules what an actual golfer is doing, not mathematics.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yup.
Lots of pros over the years have had the "club up the left arm" through the ball for a ways.
Jimmy Thompson & Ben Hogan both did back in the day.
Joe Durant is another.
I could give you 50 if I had a hour or two.
Lots of pros over the years have had the "club up the left arm" through the ball for a ways.
Jimmy Thompson & Ben Hogan both did back in the day.
Joe Durant is another.
I could give you 50 if I had a hour or two.
tourdeep
New
Hi Mandrin,
In the past, you provided a diagram, 'up the lead arm longer', where the conclusion suggests the optimal swing pattern was a non-release type feel swing,,, something "like Paul Bertholy taught".
Paul studied and blended the swings of Nelson, Hogan, and Snead. His readings appear to identify a maximum trigger delay swing. Do you agree and would this promote a more up the arm swing?
In the past, you provided a diagram, 'up the lead arm longer', where the conclusion suggests the optimal swing pattern was a non-release type feel swing,,, something "like Paul Bertholy taught".
Paul studied and blended the swings of Nelson, Hogan, and Snead. His readings appear to identify a maximum trigger delay swing. Do you agree and would this promote a more up the arm swing?
....
Brian,
I am not disagreeing with shaft-up-the-left-arm as one "ideal" way to strike the ball, but:
a) doesn't it imply a "natural pendulum" interfering action, which requires concious input before impact to stop the natural pendulum-pulling action of the moving clubhead "flipping" the shaft through/slightly after impact?
and
b) does this cause any additional stress on the left elbow bones over a period of time?....
Brian,
I am not disagreeing with shaft-up-the-left-arm as one "ideal" way to strike the ball, but:
a) doesn't it imply a "natural pendulum" interfering action, which requires concious input before impact to stop the natural pendulum-pulling action of the moving clubhead "flipping" the shaft through/slightly after impact?
and
b) does this cause any additional stress on the left elbow bones over a period of time?....
mandrin
New
tourdeep,
I don’t have any recollection of such a diagram. I would hence appreciate it if you could give me a link to corresponding thread/post.
Brian and his staff, and likely quite a few posters on this forum, are surely better equipped than I to answer your questions but I don’t mind giving you my opinion.
For someone capable of getting his hands ahead of the ball at impact will have, just past impact, by definition, his lead arm and club shaft aligned for a brief moment of time. This is not what I understand to stand for ‘up the lead arm’, substantially past impact. I don’t feel that there is anything special in the ‘up the left arm’ concept. I noticed this with curiosity in several TGM video clips. It does not feel quite natural to me.
Bertholy is indeed the champion of promoting maximum trigger delay. Once you have succeeded it to get it to occur you will have harnessed some much momentum/energy that it will unleash with such power that you better forget about ‘up the left arm’. The very sudden release will force the arms/hands to slow down. Only Tiger can hang onto his non-release stinger.
Anyone getting his trail elbow anchored onto his hips in the down swing will have a very hard time having the club ‘up his lead arm’, any time substantially past impact. It demands for the whole trail side to really flow into the shot and perhaps strive for that ‘superb feeling’ of chasing the ball with the lead shoulder, Nick Price referred to in his book. Or perhaps Player's 'step through'.
Mark Evershed, who actually teaches a non-release type of swing, admits that he can’t do it himself, except for perhaps when using a 9I. However it is a very good feeling to strive for learning to maintain the angle in the downswing.In summary, personally I feel that cultivating a vivid mental image of the hands getting to impact before the clubhead is all that is required to trigger all kind of good things to happen.
Note - I feel that Brian's twist-away gets the trail arm nicely into a position I feel resembles very much what Bertholy refers to as the CLAW for the trail arm.
Bronco Billy
New member
Hi mandrin
Are You Saying Brian's twist-away is a Virtue and Not a Fix and Could be Incorporated into Ones Golf Swing Permanently to Produce a Most Efficient Golf Swing?
Cheers
Chris,
It refers to keeping a straight-line condition between the left arm and the clubshaft.....think of the more-or-less straight line between the left shoulder and the cubhead at impact and maintain that condition well into the follow through (instead of flipping the wrists or bending the left elbow)...
mandrin
New
Bronco Billy,
Yes, indeed.
FYI, in the early seventies, 'Square-to-Square-Golf' taught something similar to Brian's twist-away.
Bronco Billy
New member
Hi mandrin
Kool!!!!!!!!!!!! I am Deep into Shauger's Counter Rotation.... From My Understanding of Shauger's Release is that it is Very Similar to Bertholy...... I am Quite Familiar with Square to Square.... I am not that Familiar with Brian's twist-away..... A Cheap Definition of Counter Rotation is a Counter Clockwise 45 Degree Rotation of the Club Face Thruout the BackSwing...... Long Live the Sweep Release.... I Guess that's what They Call It???
Cheers
Last edited:
echoes77
New
Lots of pros over the years have had the "club up the left arm" through the ball for a ways.
Jimmy Thompson & Ben Hogan both did back in the day.
Joe Durant is another.
I could give you 50 if I had a hour or two.
Brian:
Sounds like a great topic for a video answer on You Tube!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yup.
And it WILL be.
And it WILL be.
tourdeep
New
Here you go. Dunno which thread/post, just have it saved to my golf notes.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dr7c8qh_0d5dn3z
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