D plane and the flop shot

[Martyk22]

Could someone explain why, in hitting a flop shot, where the face is presumable wide open and the path is lets say significantly left, the ball doesn't go way right, taking into consideration that according to the D plane, the face should account for the vast majority of initial direction.

just wondering.

Marty

 

[softconsult]

Because it's a glancing blow (face is not impacting ball at right angle) and, perhaps, there is grass in between the face and the ball.

 

[mjstrong]

The path could be going enough left to make up for the face being aimed right. Also, when you roll the face open, the true loft doesn't point as much right as the bottom groove looks like it does.

I think...

 

[mgranato]

Glancing blow and contact all over the face - good luck math wizards

 

[dc]

Martyk22 - The alignment of the leading edge does not reflect the complete picture of the clubface vector in D plane. The ball starts closer to the face than the path, but that is closer to the face aim & dynamic loft at impact, not just the face aim. The D plane will be much closer to vertical than with a lower lofted club, which will mean that where the ball starts will be much closer to the target line than with a lower loft. The spin axis will be less tilted and the ball will lift in a more vertical trajectory, all leading to a much more straight away shot than if the same leading edge and path combo was produced with a lower lofted club.

 

[Dan44GT]

Has anybody ever tried flopping with a 4-iron, just messing around? Way right. In addition to what dc said, there is more friction created with a more lofted club which will lead to less than normal face bias. I understand face accounts for 65-85% of start direction. I would guess it would be closer to 65% with a flopper. Trackman numbers would be cool for a well played flop, I wonder what the attack angle would be. Just a "for instance" here... 10* left true path, 5* open face angle with 65% face bias would lead to a shot that would start .25* left, then for spin loft properties of a flop shot, there wont be a lot of side spin. Kerplunk.

 

[westy]

shear

more shear = more path influence.
60% is almost a 50/50 relationship for arguments sake.
The opposite is hitting up at a 6 degree driver which is almost all about the face.
Plus as stated above, where the leading edge points is not super relevant either.
If you lay a 60 open to 90 degrees, it dosent matter where you point the face.
It does however matter about the lie angle you deliver it on.....

 

[Dan44GT]

And the ball is hit right on COG? Pretty darn good, I have never seen that on SamPutt, cant imagine it on Trackman. But you could always say that the shot was 100% face and the path did not create any side spin, so it would actually be 100% face, 0% path.

 

[dc]

Definitely not much friction going on in the scenario mentioned at the start of these posts. No real ball speed and no compression = high launch with spin less than on a regular shot with a lob wedge.

 

[ggsjpc]

It doesn't go way right because the d plane has hardly any tilt in it. For example, if the club face normal was straight up 90 degrees, no matter where the path is pointing, you'd end up with a dplane with no tilt. Sure it could point in many places but the spin axis would be nearly horizontal in each case.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Has anybody ever tried flopping with a 4-iron, just messing around? Way right.

Maybe on grass....one of my favorite trick shots brian does is with a 3 or 4 iron in the sand with it laid completely open and hitting 3 yard sand shots off his knees with what looks like a level swing haha.

I'll NEVER get those shots out of my head. I was completely like what i saw what he was doing.

 

[aaron_lohan]

Seve often hit bunker shots in practice with a 3 or 4 iron laid wide open- impressive stuff.

 

[westy]

It doesn't go way right because the d plane has hardly any tilt in it. For example, if the club face normal was straight up 90 degrees, no matter where the path is pointing, you'd end up with a dplane with no tilt. Sure it could point in many places but the spin axis would be nearly horizontal in each case.

I like this.
the further apart the two vectors get, the harder it is to tilt the D-Plane.
The flop shot is as far apart as you can get them.