I quit reading Golf Digest tips since my yellow book discovery, but it still shows up in our office waiting room. This month they have a swing sequence (face-on and down-the-line) of David Toms. I know he has worked with Brian in the past. Just curious what the AIs on this forum think of his current swing from a TGM viewpoint. (I don't know enough to critique other players swings and I'm not assuming there is anything wrong with it! Just curious as I continue the TGM journey)
David Toms in Golf Digest
- Thread starter dcg1952
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tongzilla
New
His Right Forearm is hideously OFF PLANE at Impact.
Brian claimed he has worked extensively to get it back On Plane.
And he did.
And it looked good.
Alas, he couldn't play as well.
So off David went to his old form. And he is top 20 in the world now.
What does that mean?
I'll let Brian take over...
Brian claimed he has worked extensively to get it back On Plane.
And he did.
And it looked good.
Alas, he couldn't play as well.
So off David went to his old form. And he is top 20 in the world now.
What does that mean?
I'll let Brian take over...
Unlike this Impact position
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/index.ssf?/instruction/swingsequences/gd200601scotthend.html
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/index.ssf?/instruction/swingsequences/gd200601scotthend.html
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Brian has said that David's "miss" is getting too under plane on the downswing and swinging "too far to the right."
This gives him an off plane right forearm.
This gives him an off plane right forearm.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Hi folks....
I HATE to be misquoted.
Leo, Leo, Leo...
Anyhoo, here it goes:
I started teaching David during his Junior year at LSU.
He was already a stud, but there were a couple of things that I didn't like about his swing.
He had only about 15 or 20 degrees of hip turn, was—what I call right anchor plus, meaning he ADDED right knee flex on the backstroke.
This made his always somewhat upright swing, nearly on the squared shoulder plane. No biggie, except he would get above the turned shoulder plane on the downstroke at times and pull it.
Soooooo, I got him a standard 45° of hip turn, standard right knee action, and his club got more toward the turned shoulder plane at the top.
He KILLED 'EM and that 'upgrade' plus my work with Greg Lesher and our own MIke Finney, LSU shot to #1 with a bullet.
Now, maybe 18-20 months later, after he graduated, I started to try to get his right forearm on plane and get him on the elbow plane as well, on the downstroke.
I got him to do it, which made him hit it WORSE and he sarcastically & infamously said, "But it looks good on video."
It was a VERY IMPORTANT LESSON for me.
I JUNKED the idea of any "right forearm on plane" stuff, and—instead—got him correcting a small amount of 'over-opening' on the backstroke with a little more 'lagging the sweetspot' or what we call sequence release. David played better right away and I never tried to do it again.
The next year I got him to turn more around his neck0!), and the next year turn his hips more through impact.
In 1997 he got the "Never Hook Again" lesson and in 2002, 2004 and 2005, I got him to not bend his plane line too much to the right and .....(but I won't tell you any more details).
THE POINT OF THE STORY!!! is:
THE DAMN GOLF BALL DOESN'T KNOW IF YOU TURNED AROUND YOUR HEAD OR NECK, TURNED YOUR HIPS A LICK THROUGH IMPACT, OR POINTED YOUR DAMN FOREARM ANYWHERE NEAR THE DAMN PLANE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It DOES know what the club did, Plane Line, Lag Pressure, Hinge Action, all of which DT does as well as anyone when he is on.
This is my whole deal—let the IMPERATIVES (Plane Line, Lag Pressure, Hinge Action) dictate the components and options, and let the other teachers figure out I'm right after they "make someone look good on video" but worse on the scorecard.
Still out in front of the pack,
BM
I HATE to be misquoted.
Leo, Leo, Leo...
Anyhoo, here it goes:
I started teaching David during his Junior year at LSU.
He was already a stud, but there were a couple of things that I didn't like about his swing.
He had only about 15 or 20 degrees of hip turn, was—what I call right anchor plus, meaning he ADDED right knee flex on the backstroke.
This made his always somewhat upright swing, nearly on the squared shoulder plane. No biggie, except he would get above the turned shoulder plane on the downstroke at times and pull it.
Soooooo, I got him a standard 45° of hip turn, standard right knee action, and his club got more toward the turned shoulder plane at the top.
He KILLED 'EM and that 'upgrade' plus my work with Greg Lesher and our own MIke Finney, LSU shot to #1 with a bullet.
Now, maybe 18-20 months later, after he graduated, I started to try to get his right forearm on plane and get him on the elbow plane as well, on the downstroke.
I got him to do it, which made him hit it WORSE and he sarcastically & infamously said, "But it looks good on video."
It was a VERY IMPORTANT LESSON for me.
I JUNKED the idea of any "right forearm on plane" stuff, and—instead—got him correcting a small amount of 'over-opening' on the backstroke with a little more 'lagging the sweetspot' or what we call sequence release. David played better right away and I never tried to do it again.
The next year I got him to turn more around his neck
0!), and the next year turn his hips more through impact.In 1997 he got the "Never Hook Again" lesson and in 2002, 2004 and 2005, I got him to not bend his plane line too much to the right and .....(but I won't tell you any more details).
THE POINT OF THE STORY!!! is:
THE DAMN GOLF BALL DOESN'T KNOW IF YOU TURNED AROUND YOUR HEAD OR NECK, TURNED YOUR HIPS A LICK THROUGH IMPACT, OR POINTED YOUR DAMN FOREARM ANYWHERE NEAR THE DAMN PLANE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It DOES know what the club did, Plane Line, Lag Pressure, Hinge Action, all of which DT does as well as anyone when he is on.
This is my whole deal—let the IMPERATIVES (Plane Line, Lag Pressure, Hinge Action) dictate the components and options, and let the other teachers figure out I'm right after they "make someone look good on video" but worse on the scorecard.
Still out in front of the pack,
BM
Brian Manzella
Administrator
That's ok Leo...you'll get the facts right next time...
Are we going to get to see that hour long video you did on the neck versus head thread?
I made a challenge on the other forum, but you were the only one that even remotely answered. There were no direct answers to my post.
One of those guys definitely moves his head during the swing, while the other does not (from the 2 small samplings that I have seen).
I know your are right, at least for my own swing, but I'm a visual learner. Your video will hopefully cement these ideas into my own "coconut".
I made a challenge on the other forum, but you were the only one that even remotely answered. There were no direct answers to my post.
One of those guys definitely moves his head during the swing, while the other does not (from the 2 small samplings that I have seen).
I know your are right, at least for my own swing, but I'm a visual learner. Your video will hopefully cement these ideas into my own "coconut".
birdie_man
New
Why is that so wrong tho MJ?
....well maybe calling it a "big secret".....
....to me tho, generally, FLW sounds good....#1 Imparative, right?
....well maybe calling it a "big secret".....
....to me tho, generally, FLW sounds good....#1 Imparative, right?
swingeasttowest
New
Leo get the facts right. I hear the Stallion keeps a Louiville Slugger in his car!!!.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Nah.
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