Brian: Tom Bartlett is a 10-7-B single shift swinger. Mikestloc is a 10-7-C Double shift swinger. You taught both . What determined their customized plane angle variations? Are people born with a natural tendency which determines which option is right for them? How do you go about determining which plane angle variation is right for a student?
.....determine which plane angle variation ?
- Thread starter hue
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Im starting to think that any plane shifting isn't the best because it destroys precision but if you do - never bend your plane line.
Mostly everyone and especially those that haven't developed as good as stroke as Tom and Mike will have alot less difficulties developing using the zero shift per the ideal set out in chapter 12 (look at 10-7 for plane shift variations)....
Its just up and down the inclined plane - what could be simplier ?.....
Mostly everyone and especially those that haven't developed as good as stroke as Tom and Mike will have alot less difficulties developing using the zero shift per the ideal set out in chapter 12 (look at 10-7 for plane shift variations)....
Its just up and down the inclined plane - what could be simplier ?.....
Brian Manzella
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Great question, hue.
Homer said: The elbow plane is almost always SUBconsciously used.
I agree.
Mike ALWAYS shifted to the elbow plane.
I TAUGHT Tom to, but soon (like in this video) he was no shifting on the downswing by no CONSCIOUS thought.
Homer said: The elbow plane is almost always SUBconsciously used.
I agree.
Mike ALWAYS shifted to the elbow plane.
I TAUGHT Tom to, but soon (like in this video) he was no shifting on the downswing by no CONSCIOUS thought.
Why is the double shift 10-7- C taught as THE swing? I have noticed at golf ranges that it is the only option that ever seems to be taught . No doubt this is due to David Leadbetter's book The Golf Swing. Does the double shift have any advantages over the other plane shift variations which leads to it as the favoured option?
Brian Manzella
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Double-Shift is what Hogan DID and that was long before Leadbetter started de-lagging people.
birdie_man
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Sorry to take this off topic a bit but that just gave me a thought...
If Leadbetter de-lagged CHIII because he hit the ball too low (that's why he did it, right?) why not just move the ball forward? He can sustain his lag much further forward into his swing than most players.
If Leadbetter de-lagged CHIII because he hit the ball too low (that's why he did it, right?) why not just move the ball forward? He can sustain his lag much further forward into his swing than most players.
It is my understanding that the "de-lag" movement was to help with distance control. CHIII can hit his PW about 150 yards and just didn't have a partial shot of any kind in his bag. He delofted everything and just killed it. The concept of removing lag was so that the loft of his club was closer to the loft at address when he reached impact. I'm not sure why they couldn't just work on 3/4 and 1/2 shots, but that's the way I heard it. He still appears to have plenty of lag to me.
Brian: I understand that the double shift is nothing new . I am trying to establish why modern pop golf instruction seems to be centred around this plane shift option being the only one being taught . Is this just a case of follow the leader or does the double shift have advantages over the other options which set it up as the preferred option? Thanks.
mgjordan
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It is modern golf's preferred option because popular insructors don't understand the difference between plane line and plane angle. They also don't understand the difference between plane and path. They think the only way to have an inside out impact is to have a flat plane angle. The also know that "this is what the swing should look like" and try to mold everyone into a visual...which is totally wrong. Look at Bartlett, Stadler, Craig Parry, and many other. Great swings, but far from "good" according to the Leadbetters of golf instruction.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Great answer Matt!
Yeah, the answer is.....they just don't know any better...
and Ralph Mann said 20 years ago, that you couldn't do it.
Yeah, the answer is.....they just don't know any better...
and Ralph Mann said 20 years ago, that you couldn't do it.
drewitgolf
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Mr. Kelley said any plane shift is hazardous.
For so many years golfers have been taught to let their arms hang from their shoulders, which doesn't allow them to put their right forearm on plane. The lower hand position along with gripping the club exclusively in the fingers of the right hand gives the players "excessive #3" (starting from a cocked left wrist position rather then a level one).
Because traditional teaching puts players in these positions, they are forced to make compensations (Plane Shifts) to get back on plane during their stroke. It can be effective, but isn't necessary.
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