Difference between golf in the US and in the UK

[ParHunter]

Hi,

I am wondering how much different golfing in the US is from golfing in the UK for the normal golfer.
From what I've heart golf is mainly played with buggies (or carts for the US speakers). Is that a case everywhere? Can you chose to use an electric trolley or walk?

In the UK most golfers who play regular (e.g. once a week) are members of clubs, tee times are normally reserved for members in the morning and only after 12 o'clock will you see 'green fees' (non members) on the course. What about the US?
It seems that there are quite a few municipal courses in the states. Are these any good or should they be avoided? I know there are some real municipal gems out there but I guess they are the exception?
What is your average green fee/membership cost for normal courses?
In the UK prices range from about £20 ($32) for a cheap course, over to £35-60 ($57 - 98) for okay courses and >£80 ($130) for top courses (some a lot more then that).
For about £1000 ($1626) you can become a 7 day member at a okay course, £1500 for a really nice (but not top of the range) course ($2440) (and above that I have no clue ;-)
What are the prices like in the US?

I know equipment prices in the US are a lot cheaper. E.g. the same driver costs £299 ($486) in the UK and $399 in the states.

What is the average handicap of a club golfer in the US? The average golfer in my club is about a 17 hdc which sort of fits with the national average I believe.

Regards

Immo

 

[savydan]

Hi,

I am wondering how much different golfing in the US is from golfing in the UK for the normal golfer. Mainly you guys play more in organized tournaments and we play more matches with friends.
From what I've heart golf is mainly played with buggies (or carts for the US speakers). Is that a case everywhere? More and more you have to have a cart - particularly on weekends which includes Fridays and holidays. Can you chose to use an electric trolley or walk?It's getting rare to walk on weekends. Some places never can walk.

In the UK most golfers who play regular (e.g. once a week) are members of clubs, tee times are normally reserved for members in the morning and only after 12 o'clock will you see 'green fees' (non members) on the course. What about the US? We can have the same set-up called "semi-private."
It seems that there are quite a few municipal courses in the states. Are these any good or should they be avoided? I know there are some real municipal gems out there but I guess they are the exception? We have muni's run by a government entity or public run by individuals or a corporation. They range from goat tracks to as good as private with everything in between.
What is your average green fee/membership cost for normal courses? Same as yours right below.
In the UK prices range from about £20 ($32) for a cheap course, over to £35-60 ($57 - 98) for okay courses and >£80 ($130) for top courses (some a lot more then that).
For about £1000 ($1626) you can become a 7 day member at a okay course, £1500 for a really nice (but not top of the range) course ($2440) (and above that I have no clue ;-) Never heard of that except if you're staying at a resort you can play the course cheaper that a walk-on.
What are the prices like in the US? Roughly same as yours.

I know equipment prices in the US are a lot cheaper. E.g. the same driver costs £299 ($486) in the UK and $399 in the states.Yep, overseas guests/clients like to pick up a new set of irons when they travel here.

What is the average handicap of a club golfer in the US? The average golfer in my club is about a 17 hdc which sort of fits with the national average I believe. Same as yours, generally, although your average guy tends to play in more organized competitions, so you may have somewhat better golfers on average. We all know the average handicap in the US has not changed in XX years - the most overused, misused statement in golf.

Regards

Immo

.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Savydan nailed it.

 

[ParHunter]

Thanks savydan for the detailed reply.
I must say I would hate to have to use a cart every time. It would be a reason to chose a different club for me.
Why are they forcing you? I am not slower with my electric trolley then a cart with two people driving between each ball!
If I play early in the morning I go around in about 3 hours (a twoball and that isn't actually fast)


I used to play with friends every weekend but one after the other moved away (no I don't think it was my fault ;-)
and now I mainly play competitions or a swindle (unofficial competition where you just turn up).
I love the different formats, stable ford, Texas scramble, greensomes etc.

 

[SteveT]

Hi,

I am wondering how much different golfing in the US is from golfing in the UK for the normal golfer.
From what I've heart golf is mainly played with buggies (or carts for the US speakers). Is that a case everywhere? Can you chose to use an electric trolley or walk? ....................

What is the average handicap of a club golfer in the US? The average golfer in my club is about a 17 hdc which sort of fits with the national average I believe.

When club players claim a 17 hdc, they are playing in the mid to high 80's. These are serious golfers who generally work on their game. However if you put one of these club players on another tougher course their handicap usually skyrockets and they are 27 or even 37 over par. What I am saying is that most "club" hdcs only apply to that club. They are insecure.

There is also the issue whether the handicap was acquired only by riding a cart or by walking. If by walking the 17 hdc is legitimate; but if it was by riding a cart it's an artificial hdc which would probably skyrocket by walking, that is if the golfer could complete the round. Physical fitness doesn't seem to be a factor in establishing a handicap.

Of the world's 50 million golfers, it's estimated that 90% can't break 100 and usually score in the 125-150 range to complete a round of golf. These casual "goffers" tend to plug up U.S. courses on the weekends resulting in 5-6 hour rounds. Of course, without these clowns riding their carts and boozing on the course, the golf industry would collapse.

Golf in the U.S. is contracting as fringe golf courses are plowed under for new upscale housing subdivisions. As the baby boomer generation (born 1945-65) goes decrepit, they stop golf resulting in a huge decrease in participation. The effect of aging is starting to register with fewer rounds played; that along with the recession impact.

If you have established your club handicap riding a cart sitting on your butt most of the time... you are not a golf athlete, you are a golf asslete..!!

 

[magicmarker]

When club players claim a 17 hdc, they are playing in the mid to high 80's. These are serious golfers who generally work on their game. However if you put one of these club players on another tougher course their handicap usually skyrockets and they are 27 or even 37 over par. What I am saying is that most "club" hdcs only apply to that club. They are insecure.

Do you know how handicaps are calculated? It has to do with the course rating. You have an index, which doesn't change, and a handicap that changes depending on the course or set of tees you choose to play from. Pretty much all players play better after they have seen the course, that's why pro's play in practice rounds.

There is also the issue whether the handicap was acquired only by riding a cart or by walking. If by walking the 17 hdc is legitimate; but if it was by riding a cart it's an artificial hdc which would probably skyrocket by walking, that is if the golfer could complete the round. Physical fitness doesn't seem to be a factor in establishing a handicap.

Entirely dependent on the individual, some will undoubtedly improve, and play better as walking can relieve some of the nervous energy.

Of the world's 50 million golfers, it's estimated that 90% can't break 100 and usually score in the 125-150 range to complete a round of golf. These casual "goffers" tend to plug up U.S. courses on the weekends resulting in 5-6 hour rounds. Of course, without these clowns riding their carts and boozing on the course, the golf industry would collapse.

You have estimated this figure, providing no support for your claims. We already went over this...

Golf in the U.S. is contracting as fringe golf courses are plowed under for new upscale housing subdivisions. As the baby boomer generation (born 1945-65) goes decrepit, they stop golf resulting in a huge decrease in participation. The effect of aging is starting to register with fewer rounds played; that along with the recession impact.

You might be surprised how many are taking up the game upon retirement. Very excited to learn and get better providing nobody is calling them decrepit.

 

[magicmarker]

Why do most in the US ride a cart or have to ride a cart when playing? It absolutely cannot be that Americans are fat and lazy (lol)... digging deeper... quite a few courses are just not set up for walking, as in you might have to walk 600 yards from the last green to the next tee box. Unfortunately they have been shoehorned in and forced to fit around their surroundings.

 

[ParHunter]

When club players claim a 17 hdc, they are playing in the mid to high 80's. These are serious golfers who generally work on their game. However if you put one of these club players on another tougher course their handicap usually skyrockets and they are 27 or even 37 over par. What I am saying is that most "club" hdcs only apply to that club. They are insecure.

A 17 hdc would break 90 on a par 72 course (e.g a 89) about 25% of the time but shoot in the 90s the other rounds. The hdc shows your 'potential'. You are only expected to play to your handicap 25% of the time.

That a 17 hdc becomes a 27 or 37 hdc on a course s/he has never played on is complete and utter nonsense. I play in a society and we play different courses. Our society handicaps (they are independent of our CONGU hdc) are in general 2 to 3 shots worse but that is all. I played some of my best rounds on courses I have never played on.



Btw. There has been a study (http://golffitnesstoday.com/tag/benefits-of-walking-golf) showing that people who carry their bag are on average 5 shots worse off over 9 holes the people who use a trolley or about 3 shots worse off the people who ride a cart. I found this study strange, it must have been with golfers who are not used to carrying but the reasoning behind it is that if your are exhausted your touch is the first thing that goes (you are getting heavy handed).

 

[SteveT]

Most must resort to riding carts because of health reasons or they are physically decrepit. For health reasons it could be due to something like peripheral neuropathy in diabetes and their feet hurt when they walk... or their legs and feet are just unfit for walking due to lack of use.

In our sedentary society, most people only walk to get to the next chair. Then their leg muscles waste away as their bellies enlarge ... and then when they golf they must attempt a lateral rotary motion with their bodies after only occasionally walking in one direction... forward...!!!

Wotta mess ....

 

[EdStraker]

Most of the older courses with designs that have a short distance from green to the next tee allow walking on the weekends. Many of the new courses are built to promote real estate and aren't walker-friendly in design. In Northern California and Pacific Northwest, there are many courses I have played with 75% of the golfers walking.

In Texas, I only play courses that allow walking on the weekends. There is a significant percentage that require carts on the weekend.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

handicaps are calculated differently in the US versus the UK. Handicap to handicap a UK "10" will beat the pants off a US "10."

 

[fronesis]

handicaps are calculated differently in the US versus the UK. Handicap to handicap a UK "10" will beat the pants off a US "10."

That is the TRUTH! UK handicaps are generated from tournament play ONLY. When I played to a 7 in the UK I was playing MUCH better golf then a few years before when my US handicap card had an index just over 3 on it.

I played in the UK for three years, and i STILL haven't adjusted to American golf. At my club in the UK my average round of golf was under 3 hours, and I would sometimes go early and play 18 in just over 2 hours. Tournament rounds on weekends came in at just under 4 hours for a fourball.

My club did not have buggies/carts at all. Golf back on this side of the Atlantic takes SO much longer, and I just hate hate hate golf carts. To the OP: the cart requirements and the percentage of people who walk does VARY in the US depending on where you are. Here where I live in Baltimore, at the public courses I'd say 80% or more of people are riding. The courses MAKE you pay for a cart on weekend mornings and at some courses all the time. But I have family in Portland, OR, and I play courses out there where 70% of the people walk and almost none of the courses make you ride or make you pay for a cart.

Obviously almost all of the folks who are on this board are trying to become better, serious golfers (no matter their handicap), but there are lot of people in the states who say they "play golf" and might even tell you about rounds where they shot in the 90s. But if you play around with them you'll realize that they spend a lot of the time driving in circler in their golf cart and they regularly lose 6 to 12 balls a round (but just don't "count" those strokes). That may sound harsh, but it's my experience that the "average golfer" in the USA is much less likely to take the game seriously and more likely to see it as a recreational activity. The average golfer here is also less likely to have played much tournament golf, whereas at least at my club in the UK, if you wanted to play on the weekend and if you wanted to have a handicap, you would play at least 1 tournament a week.

 

[mgranato]

That is the TRUTH! UK handicaps are generated from tournament play ONLY. When I played to a 7 in the UK I was playing MUCH better golf then a few years before when my US handicap card had an index just over 3 on it.

I'm in my third year now of not participating in the USGA's flawed way of establishing a playing index. Only posting tournament rounds is the way to go. I hope I never have to pay a VAT or eat "Gentlemen's Relish", but you sure nailed it on the handicapping system.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

That is the TRUTH! UK handicaps are generated from tournament play ONLY. When I played to a 7 in the UK I was playing MUCH better golf then a few years before when my US handicap card had an index just over 3 on it.

It's not even just that, from a mathematical perspective the US calculation is more lenient.

 

[ParHunter]

It's not even just that, from a mathematical perspective the US calculation is more lenient.

I think one of the good things about the CONGU handicap is that it cuts everything above double bogey for handicap purposes. So you can't inflate your handicap by throwing in a 10 on the last hole.
But one problem with it is that only competition rounds are used and you only need two or 3 rounds a year to maintain your handicap. So for people who only play a few competitions a year the handicap might not show their current potential.

 

[Frans@France]

I think one of the good things about the CONGU handicap is that it cuts everything above double bogey for handicap purposes. So you can't inflate your handicap by throwing in a 10 on the last hole.
But one problem with it is that only competition rounds are used and you only need two or 3 rounds a year to maintain your handicap. So for people who only play a few competitions a year the handicap might not show their current potential.

In the EGA system you need a minimum of 4 handicap registration rounds to keep an active index. Also when coming to competitions and score much better then expected more then once the committee can decide to "adjust" your index independed of your score. if you enter a competition without an active index the committee can decide that you are only playing for your index and not for the prices