Distance control for pitches
- Thread starter tongzilla
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shortgamer
New
From 5 to 30 yards I stop the clubhead at a certain spot and swing through. From 30 to 100 yards I stop the hands at a certain spot. The Pelz method. I never vary the thrust. I even have the distances written on the wedges. Sounds silly but it works.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Distance Control in the Short Game....
The "Time vs. Distance" Method, which is the one made popular by Pelz, is one way to control your distances.
But!
It assumes a slightly front edge contact, and a forced full finish everytime.
I think you can do better.
First of all, on certain shots, you need a certain amount of swing, regardless of the length.
I have a lot to say about this one...but I am working on my Manzella Matrix Short Game script outline, and there is no way to not give too much away.
Basically, you have to pick a SHOT, a SPOT, a CLUB, and a PATTERN, and THEN you have to figure out a way to control distance.
The "Time vs. Distance" Method, which is the one made popular by Pelz, is one way to control your distances.
But!
It assumes a slightly front edge contact, and a forced full finish everytime.
I think you can do better.
First of all, on certain shots, you need a certain amount of swing, regardless of the length.
I have a lot to say about this one...but I am working on my Manzella Matrix Short Game script outline, and there is no way to not give too much away.
Basically, you have to pick a SHOT, a SPOT, a CLUB, and a PATTERN, and THEN you have to figure out a way to control distance.
tongzilla
New
Assume a 40 yard pitch shot with 10 yards of flat green to work with. Angled hinging, open-open type shot. Then how would you do it?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Well....
Ok.
First of all, I am going "pure swinging" mid-sole.
I am making practice swings to establish the fact that for me, to hit that type of shot, I need the club to flip upside down on both sides of the ball.
I am making sure that I get some contact with the turf without the front edge making contact with it.
Then, I am figuring out if I need MORE swing with that particular amount of open clubface, and then feeling how HARD to do it.
Two practice swings or so....one good look....and GO!
Ok.
First of all, I am going "pure swinging" mid-sole.
I am making practice swings to establish the fact that for me, to hit that type of shot, I need the club to flip upside down on both sides of the ball.
I am making sure that I get some contact with the turf without the front edge making contact with it.
Then, I am figuring out if I need MORE swing with that particular amount of open clubface, and then feeling how HARD to do it.
Two practice swings or so....one good look....and GO!
birdie_man
New
Everyday something changes but for me right now I pretty much "read" it (take a look....pick a spot....w/e w/e etc.)............whether it be putt chip pitch etc..............then I rehearse the motion I want to make. Then I just try to make pretty much that motion.
Hopefully I can kinda put er on automatic and my brain calculates right and I get my lag pressure right.
It's all pretty vague and by feel and a big guess really. To me, that's what "feel" is tho anyway.
Hopefully I can kinda put er on automatic and my brain calculates right and I get my lag pressure right.
It's all pretty vague and by feel and a big guess really. To me, that's what "feel" is tho anyway.
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Great Post Spike.....a lot can be done with that Basic and Acquired Motion. I hit all short game shots using one of these two. Once you know how to control hinge action and thrust it's nice to a have a predertimed top and follow through alignment, eliminates some of the urge to overaccelrate or have clubhead thowaway.
Sorting Through the Circuit Player's Handbook.
B-Ray
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I totally disagree.
Again, I am very sorry.
Basic and Aquired Motion—as I have seen it taught, is woefully inferior to make NORMAL chips, and pitches, and it is VERY one-dimentional in how it always has the same shaft lean at impact.
My Manzella Matrix Short Game concept is so much more flexible and real-world useful.
I guess I need to go ahead and release a video of it.
I would love to hear Michael Jacobs' and Damon Lucas' opinion of it, since they have seen me teach it in schools.
Again, I am very sorry.
Basic and Aquired Motion—as I have seen it taught, is woefully inferior to make NORMAL chips, and pitches, and it is VERY one-dimentional in how it always has the same shaft lean at impact.
My Manzella Matrix Short Game concept is so much more flexible and real-world useful.
I guess I need to go ahead and release a video of it.
I would love to hear Michael Jacobs' and Damon Lucas' opinion of it, since they have seen me teach it in schools.
Michael Jacobs
Super Moderator
Review of Manzella Short Game Matrix
THE BEST!
Loved it! I use a 1/3 of the matrix in my teaching and game ......... the rest is VERY CREATIVE!!!! I hope that Brian Makes a video soon discussing all the options -- it would help a lot of golfers ..... Like we always say --- that "IT" factor of being able to get the job done and shoot that low score ------ make some extra putts and some closer short game shots!!!!
We shot a video of the short game Matrix at the Long Island school, we show it in our pro shop on the big screen all the time -- our customers love it!!!
THE BEST!
Loved it! I use a 1/3 of the matrix in my teaching and game ......... the rest is VERY CREATIVE!!!! I hope that Brian Makes a video soon discussing all the options -- it would help a lot of golfers ..... Like we always say --- that "IT" factor of being able to get the job done and shoot that low score ------ make some extra putts and some closer short game shots!!!!
We shot a video of the short game Matrix at the Long Island school, we show it in our pro shop on the big screen all the time -- our customers love it!!!
I'm looking forward to seeing the Manzella Short Game Matrix. Understanding how to hit all the shots is a great tool to have.
......However, I like the idea of having the same shaft lean at impact for NORMAL pitches and chips (not flop or specialty shots). Having that same shaft lean leads to more consistency in my motion and gives me less variable's to have to change.....which in turn can lead to more predicatibilty and less doubt over the shot at hand. Kind of like how Tiger play's a lot of his greens side shots with his lob wedge (see this months Golf Digest) leads to less decision making (not indecisive) and more confidence over the shot.
Also Basic and Acquired Motion make it easier to build an effictive Total Motion for My Swing as Homer Kelly reccommended in his Curriculum.
Even Homer said Clubhead Throwaway was a usable pattern....looking forward to your input B. Manzella.
A lot can be learned from a little disagreement....
Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.
B-Ray
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Maybe a little chipping video in Long Island
I think I may need to turn the camera on me just practicing chip shots.
I am a little better at it than anyone who has not seen me do it would even believe.
I will post the video, and you can just all talk about it.
It'll be neat to see how my near perfect technique on this shot will be discussed.
It ain't no basic motion either.
I think I may need to turn the camera on me just practicing chip shots.
I am a little better at it than anyone who has not seen me do it would even believe.
I will post the video, and you can just all talk about it.
It'll be neat to see how my near perfect technique on this shot will be discussed.
It ain't no basic motion either.
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
Simliar to the full swing, the Manzella Matrix provides WAY more options, and latitude, for teaching WAY more students. You can see tour players' patterns in the Matrix, including Craig Perks' Players Championship chip in, as well as beginners' options, but you really get great options and options that you can customize to each individual for ALL the guys and gals in the middle.
Yet again, a great example of Brian's flexibility in instruction.
Yet again, a great example of Brian's flexibility in instruction.
birdie_man
New
lol.
Brian,
How did you become so creative? What were your origins? Did you start with Basic and Acquired Motions and then became creative?
I am a very creative chipper of the ball, but I would not want people to start there. For those who cannot chip well, I think Basic Motion is a wonderful beginning. The only thing I add to that is how to push the two hands against one another to maintain control of the club between the two arms. Other than that, there are several different way to add the thrust to the shot, which I let the student experiment with and then choose one they like.
I have no doubt that your short game matrix is wonderful and powerful from the learning and productive stand points. I have not seen it yet so I stand by my post that there is a lot to be learned through the Basic and Acquired Motions.
I'm sorry,
How did you become so creative? What were your origins? Did you start with Basic and Acquired Motions and then became creative?
I am a very creative chipper of the ball, but I would not want people to start there. For those who cannot chip well, I think Basic Motion is a wonderful beginning. The only thing I add to that is how to push the two hands against one another to maintain control of the club between the two arms. Other than that, there are several different way to add the thrust to the shot, which I let the student experiment with and then choose one they like.
I have no doubt that your short game matrix is wonderful and powerful from the learning and productive stand points. I have not seen it yet so I stand by my post that there is a lot to be learned through the Basic and Acquired Motions.
I'm sorry,
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