Do you "tumble" on greenside bunker shots?

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dslatt33

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By far the worst part of my game is greenside bunker shots. I'm a decent player ( shoot mid 80's ) but, if I'm not shanking a shot out of the bunker then I'm skulling it over the green. I do occasionally get it on the green within putting distance but not nearly as much as I would like to. And I can usually get out of the bunker in one shot but they are never nice soft bunker shots that check up by the hole.

So obviously my technique is not great so my question is should I be tumbling on the downswing?
 
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Kevin Shields

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I'd describe it more as pulling backward on the grip. If the set up was good, it should provide some speed but also the hand path required not to shank it.
 
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dslatt33

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Thanks Kevin for the advice. In the past I've tried to speed up my hands but, never by pulling backwards on the club as a way to speed up at impact. I will give it a go next time.
 
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Kevin Shields

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dslatt33 said:
Thanks Kevin for the advice. In the past I've tried to speed up my hands but, never by pulling backwards on the club as a way to speed up at impact. I will give it a go next time.
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Speeding your hands up could make them go forward which could lead the pole into it!
 
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softconsult

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My question would be how much time do you spend in a practice bunker working on the shots. Video on bunker play is voluminous.
I say this because this area is, in my opinion, the one where you watch people doing every imagineable thing wrong and then grumbling.
They either don't know or are too lazy to figure it out. Of course, none of this may apply to you.
 
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dslatt33

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softconsult said:
My question would be how much time do you spend in a practice bunker working on the shots. Video on bunker play is voluminous.
I say this because this area is, in my opinion, the one where you watch people doing every imagineable thing wrong and then grumbling.
They either don't know or are too lazy to figure it out. Of course, none of this may apply to you.
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Fair question, I do practice bunker shots a lot in my opinion. The course by me has a very nice practice area with a couple of deep bunkers. And I would say in season I'll spend a hour maybe an 1-1/2 hrs a week hitting shots out of the bunkers. Like I said in a previous post I know bunker shots are the worst part of my game and I have strived the past couple of years to make it a strength. Unfortuntely for me its also a mental issue now. No matter how much practice I put in or videos I watch or articles I read, I cringe when I walk up to a green and find my ball sitting in a bunker. I also took a short game lesson 3 years back to help my problem. It worked for a while, I was getting out of the bunkers in one but by the end of the season my bunker play would worsen and bad thought would sync back in.

So I'm hopefully with Kevin's advice I'll be a little more consistant at putting the club where it needs to be in the sand and not the hosel.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

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dslatt33 said:
Fair question, I do practice bunker shots a lot in my opinion. The course by me has a very nice practice area with a couple of deep bunkers. And I would say in season I'll spend a hour maybe an 1-1/2 hrs a week hitting shots out of the bunkers. Like I said in a previous post I know bunker shots are the worst part of my game and I have strived the past couple of years to make it a strength. Unfortuntely for me its also a mental issue now. No matter how much practice I put in or videos I watch or articles I read, I cringe when I walk up to a green and find my ball sitting in a bunker. I also took a short game lesson 3 years back to help my problem. It worked for a while, I was getting out of the bunkers in one but by the end of the season my bunker play would worsen and bad thought would sync back in.

So I'm hopefully with Kevin's advice I'll be a little more consistant at putting the club where it needs to be in the sand and not the hosel.
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What's your handicap?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Have you watched and/or own Brian's over and out? You're a good enough player to not have this much trouble in the sand. Personally i think you need to determine a method that works for you and stick to it. Brian demonstrates a lot of variation in the video but the 2 main styles are as follows: 1) oepn the club, take your grip, play some roll through the shot. 2) take your grip, open the club by rotating forearm, only use wristcock back into the ball and cut across.

The main thing i see with bad bunker players who are decent players is they don't setup open enough, they don't play the ball far enough forward, and they don't nearly swing left enough. Also make sure you have a wide enough sole on the club you are using so it's more forgiving. The narrower the sole the more accurate your entry point into the sand will need to be.
 
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dslatt33

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Have you watched and/or own Brian's over and out? You're a good enough player to not have this much trouble in the sand. Personally i think you need to determine a method that works for you and stick to it. Brian demonstrates a lot of variation in the video but the 2 main styles are as follows: 1) oepn the club, take your grip, play some roll through the shot. 2) take your grip, open the club by rotating forearm, only use wristcock back into the ball and cut across.

The main thing i see with bad bunker players who are decent players is they don't setup open enough, they don't play the ball far enough forward, and they don't nearly swing left enough. Also make sure you have a wide enough sole on the club you are using so it's more forgiving. The narrower the sole the more accurate your entry point into the sand will need to be.
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Jim, thanks for your input and advice. I do own several of Brian's videos but have never came across the over & out video. Sounds like it will be my next purchase to add to the library. I do think I'm guilty of not picking one method and sticking with it. A couple of years back I watched a Youtube video of a bunker lesson which emphasized bending at the elbows with little body turn. It worked great for a season and then the following season I couldn't get the same feeling back or success.

I do think you are spot on with your bad bunker analysis. I think when I set up in a bunker I'm open and playing the ball off my front foot but, I don't think I swing left enough. In fact I started to do a move half way through this past golf season where I would swing the golf club down by 1st doing a "carry" move from Brian's NHA 2.0 video and then swing to the left. This technique did help me get out of the bunker more consistently but, I felt like I didn't know if the ball was going to come out left, straight or right of the flag.

And lastly when you say wide enough sole are you referring to the bounce on my wedges. I play a Callaway 56* and have a bounce of 14 and on my 60* its 11.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
bounce isn't always a good indicator because it's only measured in degrees and doesn't take account how wide the sole is. One of the best drills i've ever see Brian do and i've "borrowed" in my own lessons is when a student is in the bunker i will stand almost 70* left of them and about 5-6 feet away and tell them, "try to hit me with the sand." Works great.
 
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dslatt33

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Great info Jim & Magic, I appreciate your input and I will work on these things next time I'm practicing out of a bunker. Thanks
 
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