Drunk off your back and the kinematic sequence

[wulsy]

Drunk off your back and the kinematic sequence:

Is there any contradiction regarding the shoulder rotational speeds which are necessary to adhere to the speed requirements for optimum kinematic sequencing (ks) and the feeling that "throwing the drunk" would require?

Should you try to continue rotating through impact (throw the drunk) or have more of a feeling of pivot stalling?

 

[birdie_man]

Rotate and tilt (move) in a direction to bring your hands in a direction to bring the whole club in a direction.

The pivot stalls at a point in the downswing, not sure you should try to do it?

Then again who knows..."step on left foot"..."push off the ground"...

It all accomplishes similar things.

 

[wulsy]

Thanks for your comments birdie.

For me this is a question which really stands out when talking about golf these days. Everyone in the past (pre kinetic chain) raved on about continuous rotation, avoiding the dreaded pivot stall etc etc. Yet pivot stalling is unarguably a characteristic of the kinetic chain.

So I'm surprised that nobody on the forum has taken the question up. Or is it the well practiced principle of "no comment" so widely used by politicians when they don't want to admit that they were wrong. I believe they call it the 4th Ammendment in the good ole USA, no?

 

[ZAP]

It is the 5th amendment. And I have nothing else to say.

 

[Matt Bryda]

Yet pivot stalling is unarguably a characteristic of the kinetic chain.

Don't forget that one component of the kinetic chain is supportive.

The shoulders/shoulder needs support from somewhere, the pivot slowing could be this support.

 

[Billy McKinney]

Not much stall in Hogan. A little stall in Rory Mc. Lots of stall in high handicappers.

 

[spktho]

The feel of turning or pivoting all the way through the shot is probably still the best practice. The pivot "stall" or "breaking" is a natural occurrence in the swing. The hardest part is to identify the proper timing of the natural sequence.

 

[wulsy]

Don't forget that one component of the kinetic chain is supportive.

The shoulders/shoulder needs support from somewhere, the pivot slowing could be this support.

Quite possibly. The reasons behind why the chain/sequence requires a pivot stall are secondary to my question however Matt.

swingfitgolftribe: how do you know whether Hogan stalled or not? As far as I know he was never measured on a 3D system. Have you seen Wee Macs 3D data? If not how do you know how much he stalls?

spktho: "feel vs real" is something which I dislike immensely, especially when they are opposites. "Feel like you turn continuoulsy in order to stall correctly" is a little too contradictary for my liking.

Still no-one from the Faculty prepared to condone deliberate stalling?

 

[spktho]

spktho: "feel vs real" is something which I dislike immensely, especially when they are opposites. "Feel like you turn continuoulsy in order to stall correctly" is a little too contradictary for my liking.

Still no-one from the Faculty prepared to condone deliberate stalling?

When speaking of the kinematic sequencing of a motion such as a golf swing, how do you expect to teach someone to start a segment; then a half second later stop or slow that segment and at the same time start another segment by using the energy gained from the first segment; then a third of a second later stop or slow the second segment while at the same time start a third segment by using the energy gained from the first and second segments; then a fifth of a second later stop or slow the third segment and simultaneously start a fourth segment by using the energy gained by the first three segments...... Would you agree, it gets a bit complicated to consciously control? In this case, I think it would be much easier to use "feels".

Hopefully this will be discussed in the Project.

 

[wulsy]

When speaking of the kinematic sequencing of a motion such as a golf swing, how do you expect to teach someone to start a segment; then a half second later stop or slow that segment and at the same time start another segment by using the energy gained from the first segment; then a third of a second later stop or slow the second segment while at the same time start a third segment by using the energy gained from the first and second segments; then a fifth of a second later stop or slow the third segment and simultaneously start a fourth segment by using the energy gained by the first three segments...... Would you agree, it gets a bit complicated to consciously control? In this case, I think it would be much easier to use "feels".

Hopefully this will be discussed in the Project.

I agree it is complicated. But OTOH how would you expect them to learn it/improve it if you don't teach them it?

I doubt it will be discussed in the Project. Reason: no comments from the Faculty which suggests to me either

1/ no opinion on it (ie never really thought about it) or
2/ no specific data gathered and therefore no possibility of a "scientific" hypothesis.

The Project will centre around the D-plane info (just my guess).

BTW: How long before accurate LMs for under $5,000 are available?

 

[jpeck]

Drunk off your back and the kinematic sequence:

Is there any contradiction regarding the shoulder rotational speeds which are necessary to adhere to the speed requirements for optimum kinematic sequencing (ks) and the feeling that "throwing the drunk" would require?

Should you try to continue rotating through impact (throw the drunk) or have more of a feeling of pivot stalling?

Rather than have uneducated guesses about these matters, I prefer to have suspicions. In this case, I suspect the speed vs stall (slowing to pass off to the next segment) will be more evident in some players than others. Some (maybe Hogan) will blend it in better. Others (Rory) may need a stall for some reason; such as gaining a bit of time to properly finish something else, or to prevent another part from advancing too quickly.

I suspect you should either throw the drunk or stall depending on which helps you to hit the ball better (not much help, I know).

 

[spmurph]

I agree it is complicated. But OTOH how would you expect them to learn it/improve it if you don't teach them it?

I doubt it will be discussed in the Project. Reason: no comments from the Faculty which suggests to me either

Brian has already discussed pivot braking and pivot stalling.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2lC595zOjSg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hopefully this will be discussed in the Project.

There is a chapter on body movement and judging by Brian's latest video on pivot as well as the names released of those consulted on the project I am guessing they are in favor of achieving a proper kinematic sequence. As Brian explains in the video above, this is achieved by a braking of the pivot rather than a stalling or slowing of the pivot.

 

[spktho]

I agree it is complicated. But OTOH how would you expect them to learn it/improve it if you don't teach them it?

I doubt it will be discussed in the Project. Reason: no comments from the Faculty which suggests to me either

1/ no opinion on it (ie never really thought about it) or
2/ no specific data gathered and therefore no possibility of a "scientific" hypothesis.

The Project will centre around the D-plane info (just my guess).

BTW: How long before accurate LMs for under $5,000 are available?

It is taught through movement patterns that may be thought of as unrelated to the golf swing--like "pull back, run up, and jump" or "throw the drunk off". I think, though, that it is taught on an as needed basis.

Maybe they are mum on this thread because it is in the Project.

Probably as soon as the Chinese find out there is a market and start mass producing them.