Elbow Debate - Nicklaus vs Hogan (Fly vs Tuck)
- Thread starter 300Drive
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birdie_man
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I don't like to lift my elbow...I have swung pretty good like this before...for a short time on the range type-deal.
The thing with it though is that it takes your hands to a point where they are just kinda floating in the middle of nowhere. You have to drop them in correctly- if you don't you can come over the top and pull it, if you drop too much you can go under plane and push it (too mush from the inside).
It just feels sloppy to me kinda. An extra move that you don't need. Nicklaus and Couples incorporated it pretty well though...but it still is an extra frill. I don't think you would say their flying right elbows are the secret to their swings or the reason they hit it well or w/e. Prolly just came natural to them and they worked with it.
It's just an extra shift you don't need I think.
The thing with it though is that it takes your hands to a point where they are just kinda floating in the middle of nowhere. You have to drop them in correctly- if you don't you can come over the top and pull it, if you drop too much you can go under plane and push it (too mush from the inside).
It just feels sloppy to me kinda. An extra move that you don't need. Nicklaus and Couples incorporated it pretty well though...but it still is an extra frill. I don't think you would say their flying right elbows are the secret to their swings or the reason they hit it well or w/e. Prolly just came natural to them and they worked with it.
It's just an extra shift you don't need I think.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
MANZELLA RULE # 34,567:
It is easier to DROP it to your downswing plane then to RAISE it to your downswing plane.
It is easier to DROP it to your downswing plane then to RAISE it to your downswing plane.
birdie_man
New
So it's better to be above plane at the top than below it? Is that what you mean Brian?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
300...i don't think he is agreeing with you.
IMO, what he is saying that if you don't allow the elbow to raise "some" on the backswing it will be very difficult to get the elbow onplane because it is sitting too low. Hence, that is where the "harder to raise" comes from.
Its easier to let it raise up a little so you can drop it on plane than not letting it raise and having to RAISE IT to get it on plane.
IMO, what he is saying that if you don't allow the elbow to raise "some" on the backswing it will be very difficult to get the elbow onplane because it is sitting too low. Hence, that is where the "harder to raise" comes from.
Its easier to let it raise up a little so you can drop it on plane than not letting it raise and having to RAISE IT to get it on plane.
birdie_man
New
That makes sense. You have to hit down on the ball anyway so you might as well drop it down (a bit!) anyway.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Below the TURNED SHOULDER PLANE backswings—for the most part—just don't work.
(don't tell hardy)
(don't tell hardy)
OK, all please enlighten me, because I just dont understand this well. What is the turned shoulder plane (a line drawn from the ball through the top of the shoulder at address?)
I think Brian says...."for the most part"....because of swings like campbell, hogan, garcia, etc that are flatter?
Also, I think Tiger is working (has worked on) a flatter backswing with less "up" and the left arm and clubshaft being more on the line of his shoulder girdle or clavicle, and not "raised above" that reference point. I think that type of backswing structure could be dynamically great for the right person.
what do you think?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I believe that is the "squared shoulder plane" however i am not 100% on that.
If you look at the analysis brian did in the audio section of David Toms and Vijay Singh, i believe DT is up on the turned shoulder while VJ gets up to the square shoulder.
If you look at the analysis brian did in the audio section of David Toms and Vijay Singh, i believe DT is up on the turned shoulder while VJ gets up to the square shoulder.
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