Face to Path Consistently Closed on Trackman - Advice?

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ballaholic

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Always appreciate the good advice here. A question...

Throughout the bag I have good path and AoA numbers on Trackman, but my misses are hooks as a result of a frequently closed face-to-path. I rarely miss with an open face-to-path with my natural release. To give an idea I am a 4-handicap with high swing speed (110 mph w/ driver).

Path consistently in the -1 to 1 degree zone. Face is another issue.

My lefthand grip is strong. I like the strong left hand grip and would prefer not to change my left hand.

My righthand grip is also strong.

I've worked on some anti-left releases similar to gathering the marbles and had some success in preventing the face from getting too shut. I've also worked on weakening the righthand grip with success, though that grip feels awkward (I guess that's to be expected initially).

My question would be whether you as an instructor would recommend weakening the right hand and working to fix things this way, or to work on some other anti-shutface move within the release. I have consistent access to Trackman to help with the fix.

Thanks!
 
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cwdlaw223

New
Great question. I worked through this exact issue by hitting balls and digging it out of the dirt on Trackman. I also aim right and play into the fact that under pressure I'll close the face a little faster than on the range. I don't mind hitting pull draws.

Here's a hind that worked for me: Try to feel like your push the path to the right and see what that does to your face angle issue. There's no guarantee that will work, but it did for me. The more I can get my path a little open the less face closure I seem to have. Anytime my path is zero or negative it seems like my face closes much much faster than if the path were 1-2* open. Also, watch out for toe hits with the driver. That will cause massive hooks.

Some might call this a band aid fix and I just offer these suggestions to help. This game is hard and obtaining face control takes practice. Easy fixes are very hard to come by.
 
Matt 4-L

Matt 4-L

New
You can keep your hands in the same position at address but just tweak the club open a bit and see if that helps. A lot of people think a weak grip they have to have their hands weak at address so the club sits square nothing wrong with having the hands turned in a strong position and with an open face at address....But I don't know if I would be messing too much with things if you are hitting the majority of the shots the way you are intending with only a few hooks, it sure is nice having a ONE way miss.
 
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SteveT

Guest
Do you like that powerful "feeel" of applying gamma torque axially through your lead forearm and into the club to rotate the clubhead into the ball... particularly with that "strong" grip offset?
 
Frans@France

Frans@France

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Like ekennedy said : Post the TM data. And don't forget to check the impact position on the face before you start changing things!
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
If I had consistent path and attack angle numbers and the only issue was a constantly closed face and both my hands were set strong on the club that's where I would start. But, we don't know your swing that's the only 1 to 1 ratio of fault to cause that you're giving us but it's a pretty good one.
 
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cwdlaw223

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I seem to recall on another site that your speed was 115 with the driver. Is your speed going down? Post some screenshots from TM.
 
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ballaholic

New
Here are a handful of driver swings from yesterday but not nearly enough to do much analysis. I am going to the range later today and can add a lot more. I realize hitting more up with the driver will greatly increase carry but really the leftward miss is my top priority at the moment...

trackmanscreen | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I will definitely update with more data as this sample is too small and doesn't contain a lot of the real bad hooks. Those shots are roughly the same numbers but a few more degrees of face left of path. I will post them later today.

cwdlaw223 you are correct about toe hooks but I can recognize them in Trackman as good face and path numbers but a shot that goes hard left due to gear effect. Swing #3 on this screen is one.
 
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ballaholic

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Shot Limit said:
Wouldn't the smash go down on a toed hook?
Click to expand...

You'd expect to see that and I don't want to dwell on that one shot because I don't remember it. I made the gear effect comment from looking at the screenshot - there really isn't much explanation for the numbers on that shot which (to my understanding of D plane and Trackman) should have been a real pretty fade and not a ball that ended up 140 feet left.
 
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ekennedy

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A face to path ratio that doesn't correspond to an equivalent spin axis is due to gear effect, i.e. face to path +.4 but a spin axis of -15.

The face to path was closed at impact, but significantly more open at separation due to a severely off center hit toward the toe. Dismiss the outliers that are that far from the sweetspot.
 
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SteveT

Guest
dannyc said:
smash goes up with radar devices because the toe of the club moves faster than the sweetspot.
Click to expand...

Smash Factor is the ratio of Initial Ball Velocity to Clubhead Speed into Impact.

If the radar device measures the faster moving toe of the club wouldn't that show up as increased clubhead speed and thus a lower Smash Factor?
 
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ballaholic

New
Spent 2+ hours hitting full swing shots on Trackman, mainly with 6-iron and driver. Clubface numbers were all over the board due to the trial and error with grip change, and path numbers stayed consistent. One interesting note... Using the weakened right hand grip I did hit some good shots but too many sneaky left misses continued to creep in. Maybe one in five shots but still enough OB left to ruin any round. In my initial post I suggested wanting to keep the strong left hand. Well... seeing that ball going left just proved too annoying, so for the final hour I significantly weakened my left hand...

Just holding the club in that weakened left hand, I felt like I would have to release like crazy to avoid hitting it dead right. And virtually every miss was indeed dead right. However, having the feeling that I actually had to release the club was such an odd feeling, given every instinct for the last 10,000 balls I've hit has been programmed to avoid releasing the club for fear of hooking it. With the weakened left hand and a full release of the club I looked up expecting to see the ball going like mad for the left fence on the range, but I was often greeted with the sight of a nice little draw toward my target. There were a couple balls that did hook badly, and without Trackman I would have likely quit pursuing the grip change and proclaimed I must have been doing something else wrong that caused the hook. However, going over to the computer and seeing path and face numbers that were good, and realizing it was a gear effect toe hook, made it easy to get back in the hitting bay and continuing with the weaker grip.

So odd to have the feeling that it's ok... or even required... to release fully rather than holding off for dear life. It's going to take a while to trust that. Will see how it goes tomorrow...
 
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