Fat Wedge Shots & Turf Conditions

[cwdlaw223]

How much does the type of turf condition affect everyone's swing with a wedge (half shots and full shots)?

Does anyone change their lie angles for different turf conditions (flatter lie for bent grass for a more rotational swing)?

I generally play on rye grass in PA with a fair amount of clay in the ground. I can hit down on this stuff all day long with a full swing and not hit a fat shot that often. Yesterday I played on bent grass (some clay in the ground) in PA and hit three fat wedge shots with my full wedge swing. All of these shots were on a flat surface and I'm at a loss as to why I can hit my wedges so bad on bent grass.

I suspect I was too steep and need to be more rotational for bent grass.
I hit Craig Stadler beaver pelt divots on bent grass and nice dollar bills on rye grass.

 

[softconsult]

Change your lie angles? Do you mean get your clubs bent according to the grass type?
Never heard of that. Sounds like a very bad idea to me.

Bent versus rye and fat shots. I can't see how those two grass types would influence fat shots.
Maybe it was the hardness of the ground underneath the grass. Maybe the ground under the
rye happens to be harder, and thus your club won't dig. That would assume that you are sort of
skipping the club head into the ball. With proper shaft lean at impact, I would think fat shots are
eliminated on any type fairway.

The other possibilty is that you are just over-reacting to 3 fat wedges. It does happen. May not
be cause and effect.

 

[rogerdodger]

Bounce is the issue, much more than lie. I recently went to a Vokey 60 degree with only 4 degrees of bounce. I have eliminated the chunks from fairway lies. If you hit a wedge off the fairway, too much bounce can be problematic. Sam Snead said he never hit sand wedge from the fairway due to the bounce on the club and only used a 52 degree pitching wedge. In the rough, the bounce is helpful. I would check the bounce on your wedges, not the lie angle.

 

[Frans@France]

I agree with Rogerdodger. Bounce is the most important issue. Bounce has to be fitted both to the swing of the golfer AND to the fairway conditions.

 

[Bigwill]

I've heard about bounce being related to angle of attack and turf conditions, and I was never 100% sure why that would be. If you're making ball-first contact, and the ball is supposed to be away by the time you make contact with the turf, then why would bounce make a difference? I'm assuming as an insurance policy on less-than-perfect contact, keeping the club from digging too far before it hits the ball, but I've never had that assumption confirmed by someone knowledgeable. Is there something else about ball-club-turf interaction that I'm not understanding?

 

[cwdlaw223]

I never heard of changing the lie angles either, however, the question popped into my mind as a possible way to cause a more rotational swing and decrease flipping. I hit the ball a good 2-3" behind it with my fat shots and no amount of bounce would have saved me. I must be coming into the ball too steep but I don't feel like my swing is too steep.

 

[softconsult]

I think you fatted the first one, and then it got in your head for
the second and third. Watched it happen yesterday to a playing partner.
It wasn't fats, it was shanks on less than 70 yard wedges. Two swings in
succession, then a third on the next hole. Then he recovered for the rest
of the round. It happens.

Bounce. More bounce would dig less.
Leading edge closer to ground with less bounce would increase chances
of digging. Stan Utley uses the example of him hitting off a parking lot
with a wedge having 12 degrees of bounce. I have a Scratch 60 degree
wedge with a lot of bounce. I was skeptical. Works fine, even off very
hard fairways with little grass. With proper shaft lean at impact, the bounce
never comes into play. The bounce on this lob wedge is a great help on short
bunker shots.

 

[birdie_man]

Don't like using a lob wedge unless I really need it to get the ball up.

Hit it unnecessarily high most of the time...

And I do find I hit it fat too often. I guess this would be due to low bounce. (which you need for tight lies unless you do want to skull it)

...

You probably need to have a more closed clubface (backswing/downswing full roll/stronger grip...at least one) and/or a more left path.

See Rocco Mediate! (holing out)

Should say that I am not sure it's necessary for everyone to swing this left (watch his hands and where they cross in relation to the background- in backswing and then downswing) but.....it still is a good example.

 

[mjstrong]

Sam Snead said he never hit sand wedge from the fairway due to the bounce on the club and only used a 52 degree pitching wedge.

I don't think Slammin' Sammy played too much golf in the Pacific Northwest. We can use a lot of bounce up here. Even in the summer, the ground doesn't "add" enough bounce. A lot of elite players can still use medium-to-high bounce wedges no problem.

 

[rogerdodger]

It gets moist up here in Minnesota too. Too each his own, my short game got much better once I started using a low bounce 60 degree exclusively from the fairway and a 56 degree with 16 degrees of bounce from the rough. I do agree that steepness of swing dictates a lot relative to how much bounce is needed. I do know that Olazabal uses a lob wedge with minimal bounce and his short game is the best I have ever seen in person.