Feel ("Play By Feel")

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People throw this around a lot.

I guess that is the nature of feel in some ways. It can be personal...non-conscious...vague...intuitive...spontaneous...etc.

I suppose this is larely why it is useful.

Homer Kelly sez: "Feel is the body's equivalent to structuring."

Makes sense to me. (as a start)

Another start:
feel: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

...

Anyhouuu...

What does it mean to you? (yes- youuu)

How do you use it?

I am learnin'.
I yearn to learn.
 
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There any in here who'd call themselves "feel players"? Or are we all techies.

I suppose the criteria would be if you learned to play that way, if you still learn that way, and if you execute that way.

Sound good? (or no)
 
I guess I'll give it a shot. I'm in the process of changing my swing so I am feeling a lot of different things throughout the swing now and concentrating on the new feels during the swing itself.

Once the swing is ingrained or patterned I think you would want to learn the feel of the swing or swings as a whole that are patterned for different ball flights that would be needed on the course.
 
Short game.

To me, feel is what I use in determining how hard to hit the ball in short game shots. I never had any success with Pelz clock method, and am much better in just looking at the hole, look where I want the ball to land, and let my feel hit it there.

As far as in the long game, I think of feel as when I'm trying to shape shots. I know I could analyse my shot and say I need to manipulate my D-plane by so and so many degrees to get a 10 yard draw or fade on a shot, but it's easier for me to picture the shape I need, let my hands try to feel what they need to do, and let them do it. My feel also tells me what I did on a shot, whether or not I hit the sweetspot, or hit it thin, on the toe, etc. Having clubs that transmit feel is important.

To me, feel is important because I always have it with me, and it's legal to use in a round of golf. Whereas carrying a Trackman around with you all the time is a little cumbersome, and, as far as I know, illegal to use during a legitimate round of golf.

Makes me wonder, at those tour events where Trackman is setup on certain tees, are the players or their caddies allowed to see the results during their round? I wouldn't think so.

John
 

dbl

New
birdie_man

What do you mean? Before most all shots I visualize and try to feel my way into a shot, then make it happen.

However that does not mean of course that I am playing wildly different strokes. I have my stock pattern and am playing that, with an occasional fade thrown in.
 
They cant look at the numbers, not alowwed. Trackman is the ultimate tool for the feel player.

Everyone is a "feel" player and for those that occasionally lurk on this site, and still don't believe TRACKMAN can help someone is looney. If you are a golf instructor, don't understand the D-plane and are not doing everything in your power to understand the D-plane inside and out and getting one of these machines, you are looney.
 
Everyone is a "feel" player and for those that occasionally lurk on this site, and still don't believe TRACKMAN can help someone is looney. If you are a golf instructor, don't understand the D-plane and are not doing everything in your power to understand the D-plane inside and out and getting one of these machines, you are looney.

I agree with the fact that everybody is a feel player to some degree and has their own feel.

Part of the apprehension towards Trackman for instructors is just that we've all been thru some piece of technology that is supposed to be the definitive source of golf improvement and mechanics, only to find out there were major flaws to it. The Mitsubishi Launch Monitor that Brian talks about in one of his old videos is a great example.

Who knows what the future holds for Trackman, but as an inexperienced golfer you haven't been thru the flawed contraptions that are supposed to be the next big thing.

I don't *think* Trackman will be that way, but I can somebody being very skeptical about the product.





3JACK
 
I think Trackman is a great tool, and maybe the future of teaching in golf. Time will tell. The problem at the moment is access. Untill they are at a price point where just about any pro can afford one, and every student can afford a lesson on one, they are still going to be a tool for that segment of golfer where money is not much of an object.

A couple of years ago, high speed video was way to expensive for the average pro or golfer. Today, with these wonderful Casio cameras, everyone can have high speed video, and there is no excuse for any pro not to offer this service. There are launch monitor systems that are approaching this level of affordability, but they're still not there yet. I think the balance lab force platforms are also going to help us realize how important balance is and how it affects our Trackman numbers.

In the end though, we still have to take what we learn with all these great tools to the golf course. That's when feel comes in. What did it feel like when I was hitting those zeroed out shots. What did it feel like when my patterns on the balance board were perfect. When you want to hit a shot, your not going to be able to take a protcractor out and measure how many degress right or left to swing. Your going to have to ingrain a feel for what the shot you have before you needs.

John
 

greenfree

Banned
I think Trackman is a great tool, and maybe the future of teaching in golf. Time will tell. The problem at the moment is access. Untill they are at a price point where just about any pro can afford one, and every student can afford a lesson on one, they are still going to be a tool for that segment of golfer where money is not much of an object.

A couple of years ago, high speed video was way to expensive for the average pro or golfer. Today, with these wonderful Casio cameras, everyone can have high speed video, and there is no excuse for any pro not to offer this service. There are launch monitor systems that are approaching this level of affordability, but they're still not there yet. I think the balance lab force platforms are also going to help us realize how important balance is and how it affects our Trackman numbers.

In the end though, we still have to take what we learn with all these great tools to the golf course. That's when feel comes in. What did it feel like when I was hitting those zeroed out shots. What did it feel like when my patterns on the balance board were perfect. When you want to hit a shot, your not going to be able to take a protcractor out and measure how many degress right or left to swing. Your going to have to ingrain a feel for what the shot you have before you needs.

John

Well said, i agree.
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I think Trackman is a great tool, and maybe the future of teaching in golf. Time will tell. The problem at the moment is access. Untill they are at a price point where just about any pro can afford one, and every student can afford a lesson on one, they are still going to be a tool for that segment of golfer where money is not much of an object.

A couple of years ago, high speed video was way to expensive for the average pro or golfer. Today, with these wonderful Casio cameras, everyone can have high speed video, and there is no excuse for any pro not to offer this service. There are launch monitor systems that are approaching this level of affordability, but they're still not there yet. I think the balance lab force platforms are also going to help us realize how important balance is and how it affects our Trackman numbers.

In the end though, we still have to take what we learn with all these great tools to the golf course. That's when feel comes in. What did it feel like when I was hitting those zeroed out shots. What did it feel like when my patterns on the balance board were perfect. When you want to hit a shot, your not going to be able to take a protcractor out and measure how many degress right or left to swing. Your going to have to ingrain a feel for what the shot you have before you needs.

John

Same with video. When you hit a shot on the course you cant whip out your Casio to see what went wrong. So the more artillery a player has to help him with feel (Trackman numbers, video, drills, etc) the better he'll be.
 
I agree with the fact that everybody is a feel player to some degree and has their own feel.

Part of the apprehension towards Trackman for instructors is just that we've all been thru some piece of technology that is supposed to be the definitive source of golf improvement and mechanics, only to find out there were major flaws to it. The Mitsubishi Launch Monitor that Brian talks about in one of his old videos is a great example.

Who knows what the future holds for Trackman, but as an inexperienced golfer you haven't been thru the flawed contraptions that are supposed to be the next big thing.

I don't *think* Trackman will be that way, but I can somebody being very skeptical about the product.





3JACK

The first girl I ever loved in high school dumped me (the band dork/jock) for the quarterback in high school. Man, was I pissed, and I took it out on him in practice the following weeks, BUT I didn't give up on girls and go the other route. The, "We've been burned before" arguement is lame at best. Just because I'm a new golfer doesn't mean I don't have common sense and reason. Tell your friends to start dating again, stop playing video games, put down their dowels and lightsabers and join the party.
 

dbl

New
Trackman is the ultimate tool for the feel player.

I didn't really understand this. But I think KS is saying that a feel player can learn from Trackman numbers WHY certain shots were better or worse than others. It gives numeric feedback to add to his intuition, ball flight and vibrations/sound. The ultimate information feedback, at least as far as angles and whatnot go.
 
Just for the record I posted this thread not to poop on Trackman or anything...

Just to discuss.

I think no doubt a feel player can use Trackman.

You can tweak the swing in practice to learn what you need to. (and then build skills and habits)

Can then carry on executing by feel.

No matter how feel oriented we are we are all capable of using logic and conscious thought. (left brain)

I have just recently discovered I have neglected feel, intuition, emotion thus I wanted to learn more by posing some questions.

To me, feel is what I use in determining how hard to hit the ball in short game shots. I never had any success with Pelz clock method, and am much better in just looking at the hole, look where I want the ball to land, and let my feel hit it there.

As far as in the long game, I think of feel as when I'm trying to shape shots. I know I could analyse my shot and say I need to manipulate my D-plane by so and so many degrees to get a 10 yard draw or fade on a shot, but it's easier for me to picture the shape I need, let my hands try to feel what they need to do, and let them do it. My feel also tells me what I did on a shot, whether or not I hit the sweetspot, or hit it thin, on the toe, etc. Having clubs that transmit feel is important.

To me, feel is important because I always have it with me, and it's legal to use in a round of golf. Whereas carrying a Trackman around with you all the time is a little cumbersome, and, as far as I know, illegal to use during a legitimate round of golf.

Makes me wonder, at those tour events where Trackman is setup on certain tees, are the players or their caddies allowed to see the results during their round? I wouldn't think so.

John

Good post and thank you John.

birdie_man

What do you mean? Before most all shots I visualize and try to feel my way into a shot, then make it happen.

However that does not mean of course that I am playing wildly different strokes. I have my stock pattern and am playing that, with an occasional fade thrown in.

I do mean exactly what you described dbl. Err I mean it does qualify.

It is not so conscious and logical as it is emotional and feeling-based.

For your second part I am with you.

You can still no doubt use your conscious mind at times and to build and then call upon skills (conscious) and habits. (things you do without conscious direction) As well as planning, imaging/visualizing (all things "pictured"), and just general thinking, of course.

All players have some amount of conscious thought. I do think it's impossible to think about nothing.

Everyone is a "feel" player and for those that occasionally lurk on this site, and still don't believe TRACKMAN can help someone is looney.

I agree on the loonies of course veej. :)

Some people use less feel than others though as far as I know.

Like the "Clock Method" referenced earlier for measuring distance. (vs. "feeling" what "feels right" as a gauge)

Some people are more into rules (resultant of calculation I guess) and principles and analysis...others are more intuitive and feeling.

Some are balanced no doubt.

I have neglected the feeling side in golf and other sports and even just in general.

I am going now so I might as well keep going but also mention that this is not my stuff it is from another source.

I agree with the fact that everybody is a feel player to some degree and has their own feel.

Yes sir. Anyone who is alive can feel. (strange exceptions aside)

I can FEEL my fingers on the keyboard.

I can feel my butt on the seat.

I can feel the sweet sweet port going into my mouth. (and sloshing around)

Trying for certain feels can be a good way to "program something in." (inside of your coconut cabbage head)

Simply being conscious of what your feel (specifically or wholly, generally) can be useful as well I think.

And yes some do use it more than others. Surely we all have all noticed people vary in this.

Richie said:
Who knows what the future holds for Trackman, but as an inexperienced golfer you haven't been thru the flawed contraptions that are supposed to be the next big thing.

I don't *think* Trackman will be that way, but I can somebody being very skeptical about the product.





3JACK

I can see someone being skeptical of Trackman too. Of the accuracy and also of the use. ("What use is it?")

But we live in the 21st century now and there obviously must be means to measure the golf swing these days. Most should know that this most likely is very very plausible.

Means of Measuring...I guess Trackman just happens to be it.

So I hear. :)

The over-doubters should get a punch in the stomach!!

(do note it matters what exactly qualifies you as an Over-Doubter)

(also I do not suggest you are one Richie :);))
 
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"If you are a golf instructor,and aren't doing everything possible to get one of these machines, you are looney." D-Plan portion omitted.

So why are there so relatively few Trackman installations in the U.S.? The standard answer is that they cost $30,000, but what are the other factors? I will suggest some, but will appreciate answers from people who actually know from real world experience.

1. Setup time. Is it correct that you can't just plop this thing down on the range and start using it? Does it have to be level? Presume you have to determine a target line and set the machine up exactly down that line. Is it economically feasible to use the machine for lessons in this manner? is the unit itself sensitive to wind. If it rains, do you pick it up, take it inside, and start over? How long to set up the machine?

2. If answer to 1. is no, then you need a building with a dedicated bay to hit out of. Many ranges lack such a building. The building may need a security system now that there is a very expensive piece of equipment sitting there through the night. Insurance costs go up. Many instructors teach at courses with a range, but no secure building. Many instructors are visitors at the range and would have to convince the owner to invest in a building.

3. You need a laptop and a printer to run the show. Do you need high-speed internet connection to update software and allow remote technical support from manufacturer?

4. Does manufacturer offer financing or leasing?

5. Is there an annual software maintenance/upgrade charge? How much?
How long is the equipment warranty?

6. Is the software license transferrable?

7. Does Trackman present prospective customers actual success stories with financial data? What is the typical payback period?

8. Is Trackman only feasible for installation near major population centers or in locations with concentrations of golf resorts and wealth?

What are the other questions a person would ask when considering a purchase?

Here's just one that is obvious. "I already invested X $ in brand Y and am not about to spend another 30K on Trackman no matter how wonderful it is."
 
Eek egad.

I edited my post. My mistake for not reading (what I quoted) thoroughly.

I think people are looney if they are overly closed minded on the Trackman.

I understand 30 Gs is a lot of dough. I agree with the rest of what Mr. vj said.
 
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