First Thread: Question about left heel action

[kc8kir]

Hello all:

First post on this forum. Read through a lot of posts already and I really like the scientific approach to understanding the swing, but also the emphasis to learn the proper associated feels. As an engineer and musician, I kinda need both for my swing to function.

Ok so here is the first question. The left heel in the golf swing. Why oh why did we (meaning mainstream golf instruction media) start getting away from teaching that the left heel should raise in the backswing, and replant for the transition? Harvey Penick was adamant about this action, along with the right elbow returning to the body, as the key move in golf. My dad does this all the time, plays great, and practices swinging with just the left arm and this footwork to stay in tempo. I have seen many tour pros practice with the left arm only, but very few on tour now with any sort of visible left heel action.

I am slowly figuring out (playing for just over a year now) that without that action, my swing is a total crapshoot. As a young flexible guy, I was told I should swing with keeping the heel down. Yeah, right, and have no tempo, feel or whip to my swing at all? Almost all of my best shots have been when the left heel was raised.

With long clubs, I cannot get the club to approach from the inside and square the face, without the left heel action. Despite all this, I still have instructors telling me that the left heel action is a fault. If it's a fault, how come the greats all did it?

Hogan, Snead, Norman, Nicklaus, Watson, ... the list goes on.

I'm new to the "Manzella" ideas... but I'll venture that the left heel action promotes me "snapping the kinetic chain".

Ideas? Thoughts?

Looking forward to lots of good learning on this forum...

 

[Brian Manzella]

Welcome!

Why oh why did we (meaning mainstream golf instruction media) start getting away from teaching that the left heel should raise in the backswing, and replant for the transition?

When the idea of resistance, became all the rage.

Right now, not only does "pop" instruction want you to keep your heel on the ground, they want you to to keep your head forward and dead still.

It is sorta like an annuity for me, however.

I have seen many tour pros practice with the left arm only, but very few on tour now with any sort of visible left heel action.

Like you, they have be told it is a fault.

I am slowly figuring out (playing for just over a year now) that without that action, my swing is a total crapshoot...Almost all of my best shots have been when the left heel was raised...With long clubs, I cannot get the club to approach from the inside and square the face, without the left heel action.

Most folks can not the club DEEP ENOUGH and HIGH ENOUGH on the backswing without LOTS OF and EARLY hip turn, some head movement, a flat shoulder turn, and maybe even lifting the feet.

If you don't get the club DEEP ENOUGH you have to try to FIT IT IN on the downswing to approach the inside of the ball, leading to misery.

Despite all this, I still have instructors telling me that the left heel action is a fault. If it's a fault, how come the greats all did it?

The reason there is so much bad instruction in the world is simple, the VERY FEW TEACHERS who can teach well with multiple solutions to a wide range of golfers, have never been watched by the masses of instructors.

Perfect example:

The TOTAL JUNK lesson given to golf digest's writer by the "whisperers."

If that was an audition to teach for me, they flunked.

Yet, 1000's of teachers saw it, and I don't see any outrage.

I'm new to the "Manzella" ideas... but I'll venture that the left heel action promotes me "snapping the kinetic chain".

Absolutely, babe.

 

[kc8kir]

Thanks for the reply Brian, and the confirmation of my swing thoughts regarding the left heel.

I'm gonna start telling those know-it-alls that if they don't like my heel lift, they can tell me about it when they catch up to me in the fairway.

I haven't seen too many threads yet where people put up swing videos, but if that's allowed, I get one together and put it up for critique. Here's to telling those X-factor resistance junkies to go take a hike (out of bounds!).

Brian, I'd really be interested to hear your thoughts on why the average score for amateur golfers hasn't improved despite new technology. My theories:

1) Mass Media Instruction and Confusion
2) Inattention to the development of real ballstriking
3) The age of grip it, rip it, and pray
4) Huge departure from time tested swing fundamentals

 

[Guitar Hero]

The left heel lift on the back swing is used by all great players! Not lifting it just B.S.

 

[EdStraker]

I find initiating the backswing with tapping the right foot and letting the left heel during the backswing has improved my tempo dramatically and then the downswing starting with the planting of the left heel.

My last 2 rounds on a course with a slope of 130 has been 74 and 75 with so-so putting.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The Stone Truth.

I'd really be interested to hear your thoughts on why the average score for amateur golfers hasn't improved despite new technology. My theories:

1) Mass Media Instruction and Confusion
2) Inattention to the development of real ballstriking
3) The age of grip it, rip it, and pray
4) Huge departure from time tested swing fundamentals

1. Poor Instruction (teachers, TV, mags, etc.)
2. Courses have gotten harder

 

[Deadly_Scope]

With regards to footwork, it is best to to not allow superfluous movement of the knee bend and ankle joint by the lifting the foot at the metatarsal-phalangeal joints independent of the hip motion pivot just to raise the heel for no reason whatsoever. Any foot action that does exist should be to facilitating pivot motion with an economical action.

Most average golfers I see at the range do not pivot well enough to try to be economical. I would rather see someone lift the heel of the foot (but keeping the phalanges on the ground) and pivot better and not being economical than have total economy in their footwork for the stunted pivot they strain to preform.

 

[Deadly_Scope]

The left heel lift on the back swing is used by all great players! Not lifting it just B.S.

I don't know about that.

Tiger Woods, Moe Norman.. just two straight off the top of my head.

 

[Guitar Hero]

I don't know about that.

Tiger Woods, Moe Norman.. just two straight off the top of my head.

If you look real close you will see the left heel off the ground a little bit in Tigers swing. Also if you look at a young Moe you will see it as well. The real problem is when the golfer tries to keep it down or tries to lift it. With the correct pivot the left heel will come up as a result.

 

[Deadly_Scope]

Hmmm No...

I could show a thousand more pics showing the same thing.

Moe Norman "Throughout the swing, you never see any spikes on my foot, neither on the toe or the heel" - pointing at left foot...

Its never a good idea to try to fit your ideas with the realities of real model.

 

[Guitar Hero]

I look at Bobby, Walter, Ben, Sam, Jack, Arnold, Tom and the list goes on. Swings that lasted a lifetime. In Tigers case we will see how much longer he holds up. The bottom line is teaching or telling a golfer to keep the left heel on the ground is bad advice and if you are an instructor you need to do more research on the effects it has on the lower back. I know Brian does not teach it and I don’t teach it as well.

 

[tourdeep]

If keeping the heel planted has negative results, then yes, not a good advice.

Why did Jack and Tom have hip replacement surgery? dunno if it was a result of the heel situation, but certainly did not have a swing lasting a lifetime...

comparatively speaking, young Ben had a pronounced heel lift where the mature hogan was much less visible

What may apper to be a flat shoe may not necessarily be a planted heel.

I have seen many friends who are quality golfers who keep the heel planted and will justify that action, but never give conscious thought to this. it's just what they do. Might they be better golfers if their heel lifted or prolong their careers? I really don't know.

For the most part, my heel comes off the ground (golf my way), much less with scoring irons. But if I sway too much, it's a quick band aid to think heel down until the subconscious gets in check.

 

[welshdentist]

Hmmm No...

I could show a thousand more pics showing the same thing.

Moe Norman "Throughout the swing, you never see any spikes on my foot, neither on the toe or the heel" - pointing at left foot...

Its never a good idea to try to fit your ideas with the realities of real model.

Would it be true that Moe never really hit it very far, but very straight?

A trade off in keeping feet very stable?

Is there a swing that lasts a lifetime hitting as many balls as they do nowadays?

Sam Snead WAS flexible enough not to raise it, but chose to let it happen?

I have more questions than answers but feel it happens it is not a BAD thing to happenm if done for the right reaons then quite the opposite.

 

[golfer24]

With regards to footwork, it is best to to not allow superfluous movement of the knee bend and ankle joint by the lifting the foot at the metatarsal-phalangeal joints independent of the hip motion pivot just to raise the heel for no reason whatsoever. Any foot action that does exist should be to facilitating pivot motion with an economical action.

Most average golfers I see at the range do not pivot well enough to try to be economical. I would rather see someone lift the heel of the foot (but keeping the phalanges on the ground) and pivot better and not being economical than have total economy in their footwork for the stunted pivot they strain to preform.

What the heck is a PHALANGE!

 

[Guitar Hero]

What the heck is a PHALANGE!

Toes

 

[birdie_man]

I've gotta weigh in on Moe. I always hear people say he was short...

But most video of him is as an old man for starters. (this is when he got famous) And I wonder how hard he went at it a lot of the time. I don't think super easy but I still wonder.

(it would be interesting in itself if he did hold back some BTW)

There is a video on CBC.ca with him.........air date Oct. 4, 1988...which would put him at about 60 years old...58 at the youngest I'd say...

Moe Norman: My way - CBC Archives

@ 2:50......"hitting from about 240 into a crosswind"........off the ground with persimmon/balata.....doesn't look downhill. (on video anyhow) Probably with a 3 wood but could even be driver off the deck I don't know.

It's not bad for 60...

BTW...his left heel might lift a little in the backswing in every swing he makes throughout this video. Haven't checked other footage...

 

[joeparr]

Cant wait for hollywood to make a movie of moe, naturally called "moe". 20 yrs ago when I started playing I found an old book of moe and copied him, they use to call me moe, some how I got away from it. Sorry I got away from the subject but moe is always in my heart..

 

[Guitar Hero]

I've gotta weigh in on Moe. I always hear people say he was short...

But most video of him is as an old man for starters. (this is when he got famous) And I wonder how hard he went at it a lot of the time. (which would be interesting in itself if true BTW) I don't think super easy but I still wonder.

There is a video on CBC.ca with him.........air date Oct. 4, 1988...which would put him at about 60 years old...58 at the youngest I'd say...

Moe Norman: My way - CBC Archives


BTW...his left heel might lift a little in the backswing in every swing he makes throughout this video. Haven't checked other footage...

You will see Moe lift his left heel in this video. Check 2:55-2:59 and 4:25-4:27 (that is minutes and seconds) in the video. ROCK ON!!

 

[puttmad]

Another player who advocated lifting the left heel (for health reasons) was Mike Austin.....and he was still averaging 308 yards at age 74 in long drive competions, with no restrictions in his swing.....