Flick needs more credit

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mgjordan

mgjordan

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I was watching TGC last night and it had a segment with Jack Nicklaus and Jim Flick. Jack did about all the talking and instructing, but he was talking about how Jack Grout made him start playing golf without letting either heel come up at any time during the swing. Jack said it made him learn to whip the clubhead through with his hands to create speed and it made his body passive through the shot. It wouldn't let his shoulders overtake the swing and throw the club out. It made him stay balanced and swing smoothly.

I know Flick doesn't have all of the imperatives down in his teaching(especially a flat left wrist), but I think he may be onto something with his teaching style. Rhythym, tempo, feel, etc. with a quiet body. This seems to be how Jack learned.
 
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cdog

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What is wrong with Flick's teaching?
i know he teaches 2 swings, 1 for people that are new or high handicappers, teaching how the arms swing onplane, and 1 for low handicap and pro type swings using more body.
Flick says that most dont use their body correctly, i agree with this.
 
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matt

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For one, he can't seem to grasp that the right forearm needs to be on-plane at impact. He surely doesn't have it right in the photos I've seen.

quote:I know Flick doesn't have all of the imperatives down in his teaching (especially a flat left wrist)
Click to expand...

If he doesn't have AN IMPERATIVE down, he should receive ZERO credit in my opinion. He doesn't teach a flat left wrist, yet he should be hailed as a "Top 10 Teacher in America"?

Please.
 
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DDL

New
Based on what I have seen on the Golf Channel, Flick teaches hacking. He doesn't mention any of the imperatives...just swing as hard as you can from the top with your arms. Which is what everybody who first picks up a club does.
 
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mclare

New
He once taught a friend of mine right off the tour in the mid-70's. Then ten years later he ran into my friend and said "If I knew the what I know now, I MIGHT have been able to help you"!!
Plus Jim Flick has changed his teaching methodology a few times since then. He's a flavor of the day teacher - from square-to-square in the early 70's onward.....

Maybe someday he'll get it right, but these no consistency in his instruction.
 
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CrimsonTider

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Ya know, BM, I have respect for you because I do think you know what you are talking about at times. But, you need to learn a little respect for those who have proven themselves a bit more than you have. Jim Flick is a world-renowned instructor, while you are mainly self-renowned (and by those on this board). Just because his theories do not match yours does not mean that they are wrong. I am a firm believer that there are more than one way to swing a golf club effectively, and which works for each individual depends on a lot of different factors. Just because it is different from what you think does not make it junk. When you can get someone the level of Jack Nicklaus teach you on TGC in front of the world, then maybe you will have a bit more room to talk.
 
bts

bts

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quote:Originally posted by mgjordan

...........he was talking about how Jack Grout made him start playing golf without letting either heel come up at any time during the swing. Jack said it made him learn to whip the clubhead through with his hands to create speed and it made his body passive through the shot. ................
Click to expand...
There you go, "hands-controlled-pivot", swing (in Jack's case) or hit. Different approach was used, though.

"Whip the clubhead through with his hands" (pulling away from the ball or "aiming point", I believe) sounds like shortening the radius of the pulley in the "endless belt" and, thus, speeding up the "mph" of the clubhead.

He might also mean ".......made his body REACTIVE through the shot"
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Jim Flick is one of the best teachers of all time.

He became famous by teaching a flat left wrist at the top and impact (The Square-to-Square Golf Swing), then was smart enough to change to teaching a bent one at the top and at imapct.

He co-authored the book How to Become a Complete Golfer with another wonderful teacher, Bob Toski, that for a long time was the offical teaching manual of The PGA of America. This wonderful text was taught to all PGA Aprentices, and could be said to be responsible for the absoulte high quality of Golf Instruction available through any PGA professional. This in turn is also partly responsible for the huge upturn in new golfers we have today.

This book was based around the Ball Flight Laws so eloquently developed by Gary Wiren when he was asked to simplify The Golfing Machine by Homer Kelley. He Did: Laws, Principles and Preferences.

Flick later was the star (with Toski) of the wildly successful Golf Digest Schools, which although they went of of business two years ago, helped so many golfers get better that, perhaps, they just ran out of students to help.

With Jack Nicklaus' name next to his, Flick started a new golf school, one that stressed 2 new essentails to good golf: Vision and Feel.

....better, Crimson Tiger?
 
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holenone

Banned
I just wish he had changed his position on the "Reverse 'C'" a little sooner. If he had, I still might be able to get out of the car unassisted.
 
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diggerdog

New
What could be called a "flavor of the day" teacher could be a human being who is growing in their understanding of the swing. I don't want a teacher who teaches me as he taught even 3 years ago. Homer doen't say instruction should have no garbage. Just less than yesterdays. Garbage that is several years old is petrified rank. I would hope my brain surgean does more than just get liquored up at continuing ed junkets. Same for my golf instructors. I've yet to find an instructor who doesn't have something worthwhile to say. Flick is alright in my book, albeit a bit crabby.
 
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mclare

New
quote:Originally posted by diggerdog

What could be called a "flavor of the day" teacher could be a human being who is growing in their understanding of the swing. I don't want a teacher who teaches me as he taught even 3 years ago. Homer doen't say instruction should have no garbage. Just less than yesterdays. Garbage that is several years old is petrified rank. I would hope my brain surgean does more than just get liquored up at continuing ed junkets. Same for my golf instructors. I've yet to find an instructor who doesn't have something worthwhile to say. Flick is alright in my book, albeit a bit crabby.
Click to expand...

That's fine, but DON'T REPRESENT YOURSELF as knowing the swing when you don't (and ruining careers). I know several VERY, VERY BITTER former tour players that put their confidence in Flick when he knew SH*T!! If he was truely on the path of learning, then at least be MAN ENOUGH to take responsibility for your screw-ups.

Some teachers have integrity some don't. Would you have put your game in Jim Flick's hands 20-30 years ago? Would you today?

Brian - THANKS for getting me to laugh after a tough day in the office. Nice to see you have a great sense of humor to go with your teaching skills.
 
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EdZ

New
Flick teaches balance, tempo and a true 'swing' of the club.

All of which are very good.

What he doesn't seem to get - lag and lag pressure.

Would I go to him as a tour player? - nope

but for most folks, understanding balance and tempo would really help

I don't see anything from Flick that merits his top status, as I don't find him a very effective communicator, but what he does teach (balance and tempo) are much, much more critical than most seem to realize.



Now if you can just add lag pressure...... 'got it' ;)
 
redan

redan

New
I'll also never forget-- it was Bob Toski who taught me how to mark my ball on the green....[}:)]

Thanks for a good chuckle, Brian. I don't doubt Flick and Toski's "good intentions" but like the man said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. They don't USE the illusion, they are convinced the illusion is real.
 
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