Flipper needs some help

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Frizit

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I'm new to these forums and still trying to learn as much as possible so please bare with me. I've recently purchased confessions of a former flipper and have been working on these drills with limited success. TBH I'm just really really frustrated with my lack of progression.

To give you a little background information I typically shoot high 70s or low 80s and all of last year worked with a very respected teacher and for the most part all year all I heard was take a divot etc... I know I am flipping it and of course I play some decent golf when my timing is on but I am looking at improving that but I can't get out of this flip. I'm also tired of paying a lot of money to be told the same thing over and over and we have to fix the flip first before we can work on anything else. So with that being said I purchased confessions of a former flipper and I have been working and working on this.

To make a long story short with 1/2 and 3/4 backswings I tend to do fairly well with not flipping it and take a solid divot(most of the time). The problem lies in when I take a full swing I rarely can make a divot and I know I'm flipping it. I'm just curious as to what I can look for to work on that is causing me to cast the club and lose that angle when I swing hard? Please help me because if I blade another sand wedge over the green from 90 yards out I'm liable to go home and beat my kids. Just kidding but I'm sure you guys understand the frustration.
 
F

fronesis

New
In my experience, following CFF, it's possible to make half swings with an nice flat wrist, but still be manipulating the clubhead by rotating your left wrist down. When you then move to a full swing, that handsy manipulation turns into a flip.

To make a full swing without flipping you must HIT IT WITH YOUR pivot. Try using LCT, and on the downsing, just don't do anything with your hands at all. That is, start back down with your pivot and let your hands and then the clubhead lag behind. You might miss the ball, but you can start to get the feel of forward shaft lean and a flat left wrist.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

New
From my experience, the "down, out and forward" motion of the clubhead, the toughest part for golfers to master is the 'down' part of the motion. One of the things that helped me was really focusing on hitting the ball first and hitting DOWN very hard. CoFF is a must video to watch.




3JACK
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I flipped my way to some damn good golf and only recently cured my flip forever. Neutral grip and a downswing twist with shaft lean, baby.
 
vjsinger

vjsinger

New
Dribble the ball on the wall and Harley Davidson rev up the engine with that grip with the left hand on the DS works for me:)
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The Truth from a man who knows.

Frizit said:
...I am looking at improving...I'm also tired of paying a lot of money to be told the same thing over and over and we have to fix the flip first before we can work on anything else.
Click to expand...

This is silliness.

"We can't work on anything else on anything else until we fix the flip."

Please.

I almost NEVER work on the flip first anymore, because I have come to realize—through years of experience with the "left wrist HAS TO BE FLAT idea"—that fixing the flip first is NOT the best policy 99% of the time.

Basically, this is how it goes:

There are only three groups of golfers...

1. Don't flip & play well, or play well anyway.

2. Don't have any idea they aren't supposed to flip.

3. Know there are not supposed to flip, play decent, but can't stop flipping.​

The folks in group 2 need a little knowledge first, and maybe the flip will just vanish.

or...

They soon wind up in group 3.

And here you sit.

Mark this down in stone somewhere:

"If you flip, and you know you aren't supposed to, you flip because you hit it BETTER when you do."

Period.

The trick is to take the reward away for flipping.

The best place to start is with a whole swing "twistaway" with a neutral or just slightly strong grip.

That way if you flip, it will go "dead left."

But if you worked with me, I'd fix everything else first, and if the flip was still there when I finished with you, it wouldn't matter, because if you can putt you'll be able to give the other teacher 2 a side.

I'd buy Never Slice Again 2 and start there.
 
J

johnpritch

New
Thanks Brian!

Great advice yet again!

BTW, the DVD upgrades arrived today and I watched NSA again - awesome. "Twistaway" is a life-saver!

I have to say that COFF will always have a special place in my heart because I thought I was a hooker until I worked on that! I also love the fact that I now have the confidence to place the ball forward in my stance (as opposed to inching the ball ever closer to my back foot) and can hit 30-50 yd shots with an 8 or 7 iron if I want.

Still just trying lots of stuff from all the videos but shot 3 over gross on Saturday (with 37 putts - ouch!) - best round for several years after 3 months of working on your stuff - owe it all to your videos and the info in this forum. Just about to turn 60 and will retire in August, so am looking forward to even more practice. All this good info has made me love practicing.

John
 
P

pecky987

New
johnpritch said:
Great advice yet again!

BTW, the DVD upgrades arrived today and I watched NSA again - awesome. "Twistaway" is a life-saver!

I have to say that COFF will always have a special place in my heart because I thought I was a hooker until I worked on that! I also love the fact that I now have the confidence to place the ball forward in my stance (as opposed to inching the ball ever closer to my back foot) and can hit 30-50 yd shots with an 8 or 7 iron if I want.

Still just trying lots of stuff from all the videos but shot 3 over gross on Saturday (with 37 putts - ouch!) - best round for several years after 3 months of working on your stuff - owe it all to your videos and the info in this forum. Just about to turn 60 and will retire in August, so am looking forward to even more practice. All this good info has made me love practicing.

John
Click to expand...

thats great john!

73 with 37 putts is good! i know may not seem it. but work on that short game, as you'll have lots of time to do it in ;)

to put it in pespective, one of my best friends recently turned pro, and played in a 36 hole tournament yesterday. shot 73,85 with 10 three putts in the afternoon!
 
J

johnpritch

New
Thanks for the encouragement Pecky

Hi Pecky

The greens at our place are small and the course (Mountain Ash - about 20 miles from Cardiff) had its centenary last year so they are basically fairways cut shorter!!! Also, the course is short and fairly wide open - but 3 over is one shot off my best score in 10 years of playing. Actually practised putting on Sunday evening and (I putt left hand low with a short putter) a little more uncocking of the hands made a huge difference when mucking about the next day.

I just love these videos of Brian's and got the DVD upgrades so I could watch particular bits (have watched the web versions a few times now). I've got COFF, BB, NSA, SD and NHA. I think if any rational person were to watch NSA and NHA back to back, they'd just be knocked out by the range of concepts and the flexibility portrayed there.

I was very interested in Brian's statement to the effect that if you know you're flipping and you still do it, it's because you hit it better!! It reminds me of his comments in the NSA video about the slicers who have "fixed" themselves with unwanted compensations. The cure also reminds me of the advice from NSA to use a neutral grip rather than a strong one to learn to lag the sweet spot. The idea of applying a twistaway and daring oneself to flip is typically brilliant. I'll be trying this at the crack of dawn tomorrow - but will make make sure there's nothing fragile in "left field"!!!

Cheers

John
 
Shot Limit

Shot Limit

New
As far as NSA goes, do these concepts apply to the driver and fairway wood as well? I was a little dissappointed to not see Brian using driver examples in the video as these are my problem areas.
 
F

Frizit

New
Well I actually just got back from another lesson yesterday. Was told to completely scrap my old swing as that swing will always flip. Now I'm supposed to do nothing but hit punch shots and that the full swing is nothing but a longer punch. I feel like I'm back at square one but I'm going to get through this if it's the last thing I ever do.
 
Shot Limit

Shot Limit

New
Learn to use the pivot. I can't stress that enough. I think you should also check out NSA; it's great even if you don't slice.
 
Shot Limit

Shot Limit

New
birdie_man said:
Oh yes sir.

Right through the bag.

Once you start hookin it you will probably hook it more with your longer clubs.

(BTW I got your PM...response coming)
Click to expand...


Thanks Birdieman.

The more i practice it the better it works and I'm almost doing it unconsiencly with my short irons. I'ts working decently also for the Driver.

I'm going to play a round today to see what's really going on.
 
J

joeunc

New
I am telling you man, I have been a flipper for so long also. I have all of Brian's vids..I have tried nearly all I can think of drill wise. I wound up getting the Tour Striker club from Martin Chuck who posts on here and calls Brian "The best instructor out there right now"
I hit my 2nd bucket today with it, and wow! You learn what it feels like to hit down. If you can hit it in the air with that club off tight turf or a mat you are assured of compressing it..
Then after the two buckets I went to my own 9i and SW and it felt so much better and different. I was putting a tee down in the ground about an inch in front of the ball and hitting the tee on the swings. In the two days I have had the product I am very happy.
check out the tour striker website for any more info.

thanks
Joe
 
F

fronesis

New
Frizit said:
Well I actually just got back from another lesson yesterday. Was told to completely scrap my old swing as that swing will always flip. Now I'm supposed to do nothing but hit punch shots and that the full swing is nothing but a longer punch. I feel like I'm back at square one but I'm going to get through this if it's the last thing I ever do.
Click to expand...

This advice worries me, for one. If you are a flipper (I was) then "punch shot" sounds a lot like: hit the ball with your arms. This is a bad recipe for the flipper. The flipper needs to hit the ball with his pivot, to learn to drag the handle. "Punching" the ball isn't really dragging the handle, and I think most flippers will just keep flipping it (although doing it more stiffly and awkwardly) with this advice.
 
jenhaoyen

jenhaoyen

New
Brian Manzella said:
This is silliness.

"We can't work on anything else on anything else until we fix the flip."

Please.

I almost NEVER work on the flip first anymore, because I have come to realize—through years of experience with the "left wrist HAS TO BE FLAT idea"—that fixing the flip first is NOT the best policy 99% of the time.

Basically, this is how it goes:

There are only three groups of golfers...

1. Don't flip & play well, or play well anyway.

2. Don't have any idea they aren't supposed to flip.

3. Know there are not supposed to flip, play decent, but can't stop flipping.​

The folks in group 2 need a little knowledge first, and maybe the flip will just vanish.

or...

They soon wind up in group 3.

And here you sit.

Mark this down in stone somewhere:

"If you flip, and you know you aren't supposed to, you flip because you hit it BETTER when you do."

Period.

The trick is to take the reward away for flipping.

The best place to start is with a whole swing "twistaway" with a neutral or just slightly strong grip.

That way if you flip, it will go "dead left."

But if you worked with me, I'd fix everything else first, and if the flip was still there when I finished with you, it wouldn't matter, because if you can putt you'll be able to give the other teacher 2 a side.

I'd buy Never Slice Again 2 and start there.
Click to expand...

this is true, flat wrist at impact does not guarantee no flip. I learned it the hard way :bowdown:
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Shot Limit said:
As far as NSA goes, do these concepts apply to the driver and fairway wood as well?
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

When I gave the lesson to Dr. Wood at PING, the whole lesson was straight Never Slice Again, and the only club we used was a Driver.

He picked up 60+ yards.

Really.

My YouTube with the Driver adjustments, is a good supplement to NSA.
 
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