Flipping and inconsistency

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ItAinEz

ItAinEz

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Hi all. This is my first post after lurking for awhile. I am in the process of addressing my flipping problem. I just bought the COFF video today and can't wait to get to the range and work on the drills. I figured while I am at it I might as well go ahead and post a couple swings for you all to critique.

‪2011 07 23 11 42 48 973‬‏ - YouTube

‪2011 07 23 11 40 43 856‬‏ - YouTube

I know I cast/flip but I am not sure what it is that keeps my from holding the angle.
Besides this anything else that you guys see in my swing that is off I would love some feedback.

I have been a 4-5 handicap for about 4yrs. now and I just can't seem to get any better due to the days that I don't time the flip well. Thanks for the help in advance.
 
ItAinEz

ItAinEz

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Sorry bout that but this is all I have right now. Best I could do by proping my droid on my golf bag.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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I would recommend a Casio, slow motion camera. I can't remember the exact model because they change models all of the time. But the last model I saw went for $220 or so. Get a tripod for another $15 and for $235 you've got a great recording device that can video in regular motion and slo-mo, and a good digital camera to boot.

Flipping typically has a lot to do with the pivot and the grip rather than actively retaining those angles. It also helps to understand that you hit down on the ball with the irons and how much you need to hit down. One can hit down very little and not flip, but I think it's a bit more difficult to do and the speed of the body pivot vs. the speed of the arms swing needs to get get faster the shallower the strike.




3JACK
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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Brian,

Why does he need to flip with the strong grip? I ask because I play with a guy in my league who also has a SUPER strong grip and he simply cannot make a motion through the ball without flipping.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
The super strong grip delofts the face so much he'd never get it in the air; thus he flips it to add loft and not hook it.
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

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So he could swivel and have good impact alignments though, right? However, he may not have the desired ball flight and shot shape. This guy really struggles to swivel correctly though the hitting zone, and the grip is likely conspiring against him.
 
ItAinEz

ItAinEz

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This makes a lot of sense. I never get the feeling that I ever really release the club. I see now that I don't release it because if I did it would be a snap hook, so I flip to add loft and to hold the face open enough to not hook it off the planet. Right? Hittin the range later today to work with the weaker grip and do some of the COFF drills.
 
ItAinEz

ItAinEz

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Thanks for the responses so far guy I really appreciate the input. So today I went to the range and did some experimenting. I started off hitting some shots with my very strong grip, which thanks to Brians post I now realize is crazy strong, hit some good shots when I timed the flip right. I also hit some shots that started left and turned left (my usual miss).
Next I went to a much weaker grip in comparison to my normal grip. Started with my regular swing and release (or lack there of) and suprise suprise hit a bunch of push cuts. Next I took the same backswing but instead of holding on I went ahead and felt as if I was swinging left. Well what do you know, high, soft and straight!!!! Now I'm not saying the grip change felt comfortable at all but if I can hit irons like that I will make sure I get used to it.
So now that I am ready to give the grip change a go I am not sure if I should stick with the steeper swing I have now or go back to a more on plane backswing. As you can imagine the flatter backswing with a super shut face had a tendency to get really ugly, lots of thins shots and hooks. I hit some 8 irons with the flatter backswing and weaker grip and it seemed as easy as turn back and turn through to the left which produce laser after laser at my target. Any thought on any of this would be great.

BTW Brian, I am seriously considering missing my club championship on the 20th in order to attend the 2day school in MD but not sure yet.
 
ItAinEz

ItAinEz

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Ok so I just got done playing in a 4 day tournament and by the end I had no idea where the ball was going from swing to swing. I would routinely follow up a 300 yrd. drive with a 100 yrd. snap hook. I am now done with my "major" tournaments for the year and I am ready to address the many issues I have with my game.
One thing I know that has to change is my grip,as Brian stated earlier it is far too strong. So I guess what I am asking is if you guys could tell me where you would start if you were me. NSA, NHA, or any of the other patterns. I do get a lot of range time in but I would like it to be more about grooving a swing instead of trying the band-aid for a day approach. Thanks for any thoughts.
 
Jwat

Jwat

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ItAinEz said:
Ok so I just got done playing in a 4 day tournament and by the end I had no idea where the ball was going from swing to swing. I would routinely follow up a 300 yrd. drive with a 100 yrd. snap hook. I am now done with my "major" tournaments for the year and I am ready to address the many issues I have with my game.
One thing I know that has to change is my grip,as Brian stated earlier it is far too strong. So I guess what I am asking is if you guys could tell me where you would start if you were me. NSA, NHA, or any of the other patterns. I do get a lot of range time in but I would like it to be more about grooving a swing instead of trying the band-aid for a day approach. Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

I had a grip problem as well when I was hooking. It wasn't from too strong of a grip, but from the left hand grip being too much in the fingers. I moved it more in the back of my hand (not palm) and it was cured.
 
ItAinEz

ItAinEz

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I think I am in the same boat Jwat. It feels like I hold the grip almost exclusively with my left hand pinky and the rest of the fingers just with the tips. I am also thinking about keeping the strong left hand and a more neutral right hand.
 
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Jwat

Jwat

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When you start your transistion on your downswing, does the butt of the club move in your hand slightly? If so the grip is not right. Everytime I had a lesson with Brian we spent at least 5 min on fixing my grip, then at least every 5 swings he would adjust it. He kept wanting me to squeeze my left hand around the club. The only way to do that was to make sure it was all the way in my hand, but still across the 3rd pad on my fingers.
 
B

birly-shirly

New
I've hooked the ball for years, and not in a good way, with a 3 knuckle left hand grip.
I tried weakening it and never felt comfortable. I got NHA and hit big high blocks. Finally, I got NSA and went about halfway to neutral, only 2 knuckles showing for me. Felt initially very weak with ballflight to match, but twistaway and roll got me able to hit draws - which told me I was on the right track.

I'm still working towards a true "Manzella neutral" left hand - which seems massively weaker than what I'm used to, but the good news is that I can now use a bit of twisting the shaft about itself to square up the face, and bits of NHA to move the ball left to right in a far more controlled way than I've been used to.

In other words, I've found NSA really useful for putting a weaker grip into play - and NHA might be the future, but I think it makes sense to have both. FWIW - a stronger left hand grip has always felt more in the fingers to me, and a weaker grip more in the palm.
 
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