For Mandrin, NMgolfer, and any scientists or wanna bees....

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Here is the task.

Dr. Robert Grober said that there was a mistake every paragraph in The Golfing Machine.

I am sure he meant Chapetr 2.

So, Mandrin, NMgolfer, and any scientists or wanna bees....Find some specific flaws that you believe to be incorrect, and I will make it part of my winter science project.

(Lets leave out the "heavy hit." I think we disproved that one already)
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
Brian Manzella said:
Here is the task.

Dr. Robert Grober said that there was a mistake every paragraph in The Golfing Machine.

I am sure he meant Chapetr 2.

So, Mandrin, NMgolfer, and any scientists or wanna bees....Find some specific flaws that you belive to be incorrect, and I will make it part of my winter science project.

(Lets leave out the "heavy hit." I think we disproved that one already)
Click to expand...

Yippee!!! More Ammo!!! :D :D :D
 
M

matt kluck

New
Is that Dr. Robert Grober from Yale?:)
Brian Manzella said:
Here is the task.

Dr. Robert Grober said that there was a mistake every paragraph in The Golfing Machine.

I am sure he meant Chapetr 2.

So, Mandrin, NMgolfer, and any scientists or wanna bees....Find some specific flaws that you belive to be incorrect, and I will make it part of my winter science project.

(Lets leave out the "heavy hit." I think we disproved that one already)
Click to expand...
 
J

jmessner

New
This should be interesting...

We'll probably get in all kinds of interesting debates about some of this, but I'll list a few possibilities(I have 6th edition):

2-B: 1st Paragraph: "Clubface Loft (2-C-1) and Hinge Action (2-D) determine altitude and backspin and are the basic elements of Ball Control." I think effective loft (clubface loft relative clubhead path) and angle of attack may play a bigger role.

2nd Paragraph: He references "Venturi Effect". I thought a Venturi effect was a flow through a restriction. I would more accurately label the effect of fluid flow around a golf ball a Bernoulli effect or maybe even Magnus effect.

2-C-0 Linear Force: Kelley seems to imply that the great "compression" the greater resulting ball speed (he uses the term force). There was no way for him to envision flexible clubfaces, I suppose, but the benefit to those are they cause the ball to compress less and thus have a more "elastic" type collision and not loose as much kinetic energy resulting in higher ball speeds.

2-C-1 Linear Force - The ideal application: I'm not real fond of his drawing showing the ball at lower position (yes, I know it's quite exaggerated) at separation compared to initial impact. He shows the ball at the same position on the clubface in both instances, but I'm under the impression the ball slides up the face for a time before compressing and therefore leaves the clubface from a different position than at 1st contact.

Jay
 
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K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I'm only a 15 handicap in the science room, but would love to read the thread that disproves the heavy hit. Concepts that revolve around this theory (sustaining Pressure until separation) have really helped me and I would like to know why they're junk. Could someone please direct me to this thread.Thanks in advance.
 
Bronco Billy

Bronco Billy

New member
doubled said:
I'm only a 15 handicap in the science room, but would love to read the thread that disproves the heavy hit. Concepts that revolve around this theory (sustaining Pressure until separation) have really helped me and I would like to know why they're junk. Could someone please direct me to this thread.Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I Think it's This One....

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6127

Why Do You Wanna Torture Yourself.... Your Gonna Read the Whole Damm Thing and You are Still Gonna Believe as You Do Right NOW..... :D :D :D

http://members.aol.com/rock50728/spinning.mid
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
No,no. I understand it's been de-bunked. I just don't know the science behind it. I can handle it. I'm just curious as to why i seem to hit it better with the forefinger still pressuring the shaft past impact. That is what people mean by a "heavy hit"...isn't it? Dumping more force, so to speak.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Why....and why?

What is the "Heavy Hit Theory"?

You can get yourself in a position with your body, or with lag pressure, to RESIST the deceleration forces of impact, therfore INCREASING separation—and therefore—BALL speed.​

How was it debunked?

Because the club acts as if the HEAD was disconnected to SHAFT, and the increased mass of the golfer is MINISCULE in the math equations.
​
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The REASON it works for lots of folks is....

...it takes nearly 2/10ths of a second for your brain to make a decision, and send instructions to your body.

It you START the club down with LAG PRESSURE, and still feel it most of the way down....and THEN feel it PAST impact.

You'll never know the dif. :cool:
 
M

matt kluck

New
It is the Magnus effect and the errors provoke thought. The best way to learn, self discovery.:) :)
jmessner said:
We'll probably get in all kinds of interesting debates about some of this, but I'll list a few possibilities(I have 6th edition):

2-B: 1st Paragraph: "Clubface Loft (2-C-1) and Hinge Action (2-D) determine altitude and backspin and are the basic elements of Ball Control." I think effective loft (clubface loft relative clubhead path) and angle of attack may play a bigger role.

2nd Paragraph: He references "Venturi Effect". I thought a Venturi effect was a flow through a restriction. I would more accurately label the effect of fluid flow around a golf ball a Bernoulli effect or maybe even Magnus effect.

2-C-0 Linear Force: Kelley seems to imply that the great "compression" the greater resulting ball speed (he uses the term force). There was no way for him to envision flexible clubfaces, I suppose, but the benefit to those are they cause the ball to compress less and thus have a more "elastic" type collision and not loose as much kinetic energy resulting in higher ball speeds.

2-C-1 Linear Force - The ideal application: I'm not real fond of his drawing showing the ball at lower position (yes, I know it's quite exaggerated) at separation compared to initial impact. He shows the ball at the same position on the clubface in both instances, but I'm under the impression the ball slides up the face for a time before compressing and therefore leaves the clubface from a different position than at 1st contact.

Jay
Click to expand...
 
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