Forward Hands At Address

[birdie_man]

Address and how JN “felt it” from Golf My Way
*leading the club head into the ball with the hands fundamental to solid, accurate shot-making….
*what you are really doing at address is previewing your impact position…
*the hands should obviously be set ahead of the ball at address
*I address the ball with my left arm and the club forming a straight line
*my left shoulder is always closer than the ball is to my target
*my hands must be ahead of the ball
*other benefits to be derived from setting up with the left arm and club in line:
-automatically helps establish the correct shoulder tilt at address, with the left shoulder slightly higher than the right, just as it should be during impact.
-encourages the right arm to fall into the correct slot, slightly “under” the left…as desirable during impact
-in my case, promotes a smooth start to the swing with everything moving together as a one-piece unit
* “I think”
-allowing a concave kink at the back of the left wrist at address will almost certainly cause the hands to work independently by encouraging a dragging back of the club head, often outside the line
-a convex arching or forward bowing of the left wrist at address tends to force the hands and wrists independently to lift the club abruptly on the backswing
*For all normal shots I position my head well behind the ball…How far?….if you drew a vertical line straight up from the ball….it would connect with the left ear

I've been thinking of this one recently and given DOCW3's recent post this would be a perfect time to ask this question:

Brian and co.,

How often do you teach a player to use forward hands at address? With a neutral grip?

I have found mid-body hands difficult to do particularly with shorter clubs and shots that I hit down on more. I get right misses and ocassionally shanks and generally the clubface just seems to be too open. (if I am still swinging too far to the right this especially is not a good thing)

To exaggerate the effect, when I deliberately move my hands well back of the ball at address (very bent left wrist/flat RW) I can hit drives great and long irons pretty good as well. Short irons are powderpuff (not enough forward lean, too much loft, face too open, too under the swetspot) or shanks.

Is this a problem you encounter much with your students, or is it indicitive of another flaw or personal swing quirk?

I know you often advocate mid-body hands basically because it allows a person to load it better.

I haven't tested forward hands enough yet but I feel that starting this way, when combined with my lagging clubhead takeaway, gives me sufficient loading. (personally) If the clubface does not get as open as it has, this address position may help me.

And this may be just a personal thing but I suspect for me I can get rid of my weird early lift (I may open it somewhat early as well) in the takeaway if I address with Nicklaus hands. (I will have to test and video it however) And like I said before I could care less what it looks like so long as it works as I desire.

Been on my mind for a while.

Maybe if Nick-loss was an exception I can be one too?? Who knows.

 

[birdie_man]

BTW I don't necessarily mean forward of the ball.

I mean forward of "between the heels." (I hope that is a good way to define it)

I do realize as well my trouble could be due to swinging too far to the right and/or other things.

 

[puttmad]

birdie,

I was taught (a while ago..) that my hands should be set at a point that would be equivalent to above the center of the divot...works for me..

 

[birdie_man]

Yes this would seem to be what I refer to pm.

I was just thinking and I thought I should also mention that ball position of course matters.

Wrist conditions + ball position.

Obviously if the ball is back you are apt to have the hands back but with lots of forward shaft lean at address.

Ball forward: depends?

 

[JamesBurg]

Works for me.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Yuckers.

I really can't stand forward hands.

Gives me the heebee-jeebees.

Why?

"Cause we have fixed so many people taking this away.

But, I have several students with forward hands.

Seems to be folks with string grips, and short swings.

The ball doesn't know....but they give me the hives.

 

[birdie_man]

But it must be for some people yes Brian? Could you have fixed Nicklaus, Trevino, etc.?

I have been looking at pictures! There are lots of mid-body hand players but I have found quite a few who have them a good bit forward of that as well. (the camera angles seemed ok)

I don't mean bums either.

I presume you have looked into all this just the same of course. But I must probe a little nonetheless. Maybe you know something I do not realize.

Brian- would you have tried to change Nicklaus?

Again, I'm not about to run around and tell everyone this is the way to play but...I have noticed a good amount of guys don't have the hands right between the heels. (mid-body?)

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Forward hands are ok for some people, however for most with swinging right problems it's not necessarily a good idea.

 

[ZAP]

Forward hands are opposing LCT yes?

 

[birdie_man]

I have basically no teaching experience so I don't know as well how things work with most golfers.....but it can still be done.

If you think about it...with the hands forward there is a lot of room for the hands to travel TO a mid-body hands position (during the backswing) with minimal clubhead travel. (for what it's worth) Imagine the clubhead was glued to the ground.

Brian has said before that Nicklaus did a lot of this.

I just can't help but think guys...

I haven't examined multiple sequences for most of these players to check but...

I have seen a good amount of players with the hands on the inside of the lead thigh or even forward of that.

Regardless, I will have to test it out. (I will try almost anything)

 

[birdie_man]

Forward hands are ok for some people, however for most with swinging right problems it's not necessarily a good idea.

Gotcha Jim.

Pop-out hand path, inside club path.

I do find I am able to draw/hook it more with forward hands at address.

 

[birdie_man]

Brian!- Jack Nicklaus!

(etc.)

No??

 

[WoodbridgeGolf37]

Not sure why...

Birdie -

Keeping my hands off of my left thigh (right handed player) helped me to square the clubface to the target at address. For some reason when using mid-body hands I always had the face closed/aimed way left of target, which forced me to swing out to right field and play a pull or pull hook.
(I know strong grip leaps to mind - but I'm fairly diligent about checking my grip and don't think this was the root).

While having my hands in this position limits my ability to lag the clubhead during the takeaway, I've found that overall I'm in a much better address position. Having your hands in this position doesn't seem to limit your ability to start the swing with internal rotation - a preferred method for a dynamic swing around these parts.

Would be interested to hear what some of the instructors around these parts think the benefits of hands ahead might be for some....