GD Hogan Article

[birdie_man]

http://www.golfdigest.com/majors/masters/index.ssf?/majors/masters/gd200404hogansecret.html

What do you think of this Brian? (or anyone)

How bout the "drive the right knee at the ball" swing thought as being as big a deal as they make it out to be?

What about this part too:

"My next question was about his famous cupped left wrist. Hogan had explained in Life magazine that his Secret was cupping his wrist at the top of the swing so the wrist joint was bent slightly inward. Hogan was truthful when he emphasized the importance of the cupped left wrist, but as he revealed to me that day, it was only part of the story. Hogan explained to me that the left wrist was cupped because it was the only position the wrist could assume based on the position of his right knee."

Personally, I have a bit of a beef with anything being called a "secret" or even worse "THE secret".

It's an element amongst 20 other possible "secrets" if you ask me.

-Paul

 

[Biffer]

In my opinion, this article is all fiction. I think the author made it all up just for the article. The author probably looked at Hogan's swing and chose those elements to create the article. The reason Hogan cupped his wrist is because of his hand position at the setup. It's just the way the body wants to behave, it has nothing to do with the knee. The right knee does not move the hips, the hips move the right knee. Hogan rotated his hips to start the downswing. He did not drive his knee or attempt to slide. Hogan swung the club by unwinding from the bottom up. I agree about the "secret", there is none. There is a lot that Hogan didn't understand, but that doesn't qualify as a secret. But then, even the yellow book is incomplete, isn't it?

 

[David Alford]

All wrong.

 

[Mathew]

quote:But then, even the yellow book is incomplete, isn't it?

Nope....

 

[cdog]

If you look at how the body functions, then understand the meaning of the swing starts from the ground up, i see where the feet, ankles, legs move the hips.

 

[DDL]

The big muscles are in the hips, not the knees. I mistakenly thought I was rotating my hips because my knees were rotating towards the target. Not so. Much more efficient for the hips to pull the knees instead of the other way around.

 

[bray]

Mathew,

If you are saying "nope" to the possibility of the Yellow Book being incomplete, then please explain why notes on the seventh edition exist. Homer's studies and findings were constantly growing with each edition, that's why the first six editions exist. The study of golf is a "life study" as a distinquished teacher once told me. Keep studying and learning Mathew.

Studying the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hogan's REAL secret has been discussed on here many times.

The Golfing Machine is wonderfully complete in THIS WAY:

The WHOLE swing is perfectly catologed and explained.

But HOW TO TEACH IT is not.

How to play the game is not.

But...like Homer said..."The Instructor's Job is......."

 

[jeffy]

The GD article is an excerpt from the book Afternoons with Mr. Hogan by Jody Vasquez. I liked it very much. I don't see any reason to doubt it's authenticity; if Vasquez was a fraud, there are many people still alive (including Mrs. Hogan) who could expose him. As far as Hogan's views on his swing (Hogan only talked about HIS swing, not "the" golf swing), it's absurd to suggest that he didn't know exactly what he was doing or why. Otherwise, it would have been impossible for him to be the best ballstriker of all time and maintain that level of skill well into his fifties despite the auto accident injuries, which ultimately ended his competitive career. Whether or not Vasquez (only 20 at the time), completely understood Hogan, or remembered all he was told accurately, is a different, and legitimate, question.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Hogan's REAL secret has been discussed on here many times.

The Golfing Machine is wonderfully complete in THIS WAY:

The WHOLE swing is perfectly catologed and explained.

But HOW TO TEACH IT is not.

How to play the game is not.

But...like Homer said..."The Instructor's Job is......."

well said...

 

[birdie_man]

Jeffy...

The thing is though...I think it's still absurd to say this was his secret because it just isn't that big of a deal...honestly.

If anything, it's describing a "feel" sensation of Hogan's- to "drive the right knee".

It's not useful as a working, physics-correct, mechanical swing component.

If anything...his lower body structure MIGHT be worth studying I think...the braced right knee and "sag", or w/e you call it- his axis tilt...

But I still don't think even that is good enough to be coined as "his ultimate secret"...

...I think Brian nailed the main "secret" (I still hate the idea of having ONE secret BTW) in his Audio Answer...I'm not saying this out of blind faith or following to Brian either BTW.

-Paul

 

[jeffy]

Paul-

"Hogan's Secret" was something of a phenomena in the '50's and is pretty hard to relate to today because so much more is known about the golf swing: TGM, video, computer analysis, dedicated teachers, etc. I certainly agree that what is discussed by Vasquez isn't that big a "secret": Mickey Wright, Knudson and Hogan-student John Schlee, amomg others (TT?), all pretty much incorporate the flexed, braced right knee in their teaching. The interesting aspect of the article, I think, is that it reveals what Hogan thought were critical components to his swing, ones that he never disclosed publicly. Remember: he only talked about HIS swing, not THE golf swing. No reason why his keys should be critical components of different swing patterns.

Jeff

 

[jeffy]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man


...I think Brian nailed the main "secret" (I still hate the idea of having ONE secret BTW) in his Audio Answer...I'm not saying this out of blind faith or following to Brian either BTW.

I haven't found an Audio Answer by Brian on this topic. Could someone help me find it?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[rwh]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Jeffy...

The thing is though...I think it's still absurd to say this was his secret because it just isn't that big of a deal...honestly.

If anything, it's describing a "feel" sensation of Hogan's- to "drive the right knee".

It's not useful as a working, physics-correct, mechanical swing component.

If anything...his lower body structure MIGHT be worth studying I think...the braced right knee and "sag", or w/e you call it- his axis tilt...

But I still don't think even that is good enough to be coined as "his ultimate secret"...

...I think Brian nailed the main "secret" (I still hate the idea of having ONE secret BTW) in his Audio Answer...I'm not saying this out of blind faith or following to Brian either BTW.

-Paul

Sometimes we are disappointed to find out that the "secret" to something -- once exposed -- is really quite simple.

 

[jeffy]

quote:Originally posted by rwh


Sometimes we are disappointed to find out that the "secret" to something -- once exposed -- is really quite simple.

When you think about it, a "secret" is just something that has been kept private by someone and not divulged to others. Being "secret" doesn't mean that it is a magical key to success or, in this case, to the golf swing.

Unfortuntely, the last line of the chapter on Hogan's "secret" in Vasquez's book was omitted from the GD article. It read: "Good luck with it and now, go hit your 10,000 balls!" By way of explanation, "Go hit 10,000 balls" was Hogan's frequent answer to questions about the golf swing. To me this shows that Vasquez recognized that the information contained in the "secret" could be no more than a small part of building an effective golf swing.

Jeff

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man


...I think Brian nailed the main "secret" (I still hate the idea of having ONE secret BTW) in his Audio Answer...I'm not saying this out of blind faith or following to Brian either BTW.

I haven't found an Audio Answer by Brian on this topic. Could someone help me find it?

Thanks,

Jeff

Right there buddy.
http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1911&SearchTerms=hogan,secret

-Paul

 

[jeffy]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

quote:Originally posted by jeffy

I haven't found an Audio Answer by Brian on this topic. Could someone help me find it?

Thanks,

Jeff

Right there buddy.
http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1911&SearchTerms=hogan,secret

-Paul

Thank you very much! I liked Brian's audio as well as some of the comments in the thread: the bit that Bolt said that Hogan had the strongest legs he ever saw on a golfer is quite revealing. Given his accident and the crude surgery that he underwent as a consequence (tying off the major vein in both legs to prevent clots from traveling to the heart), I always assumed Hogan had relatively weak legs. Now I know differently...

Jeff

 

[Jimmy A.]

I've also read "Afternoons with Mr. Hogan", and I don't think that the author has any reason to flat-out lie. Like someone else already said, there are people who are still alive and would identify the guy as a fraud if he was one. As far as the action of the right knee being "his secret", who knows? From this book, and from another biography I've read, I get the impression that Hogan revealed different "secrets" to different people. Maybe there really was no secret. Like Snead said, anyone can say they have a secret if they never tell it to anyone.

 

[birdie_man]

His "secret" is his golf swing as a whole. Everything works together brilliantly.

You can't just place his success on indiv. components IMO.

Take one away and the whole thing is different.

Having said that...I think Brian revealed the "base" component ("secret") of his swing in his audio answer.

-Paul

 

[David Alford]

How true, birdie_man! People will in general be disappointed with a total expose of Hogan's swing.
They are looking for a complex and unique solution and it really isn't there with one possible exception (naturally, I'm not prepared to reveal that here) & that exception is not at all necessary for emulating his swing (more related to fine tuning directional ball flight).